GPs agree to waive privacy of mentally ill gun owners (UK)

Guardian Co.uk ^ | June 14th 2010 | Vikram Dodd

[Cardhu]

Doctors have agreed to breach their duty of medical confidentiality to patients who own guns if they fear they have become so seriously mentally ill they may use their weapons on themselves or the public, the Guardian has learned.

GPs say they will tell the police if a gun owner's deteriorating health makes him or her a serious danger to the public, without the patient giving consent to their medical privacy being breached.

In order for doctors to know which patients have guns, the medical records of patients holding or applying for firearms licences would be "flagged".

The agreement comes after months of talks between the Association of Chief Police Officers and the British Medical Association.

Shooting groups warned of dangers in the scheme but recognise that the issue of flagging gun owners' medical records had become more prominent after the Cumbria shootings two weeks ago. Derrick Bird killed 12 people and injured 11 others after a killing spree armed with two weapons.

The BMA's ethics committee has approved the principle that patient confidentiality can be overridden in the interests of "public safety".

The BMA said today: "While there is a clear public interest in a confidential health service, where there are serious threats to individuals, confidentiality can be breached. Where doctors know that a patient has a firearm and, in their view, as a result, presents a risk of harm to themselves or others, both legally and ethically, this information can be disclosed without consent.

[Cardhu]

In order for doctors to know which patients have guns, the medical records of patients holding or applying for firearms licences would be "flagged".

[2harddrive]

So the Oath of Hippocrates has become the Hypocritical Oath!

[rarestia]

Having studied psychology in college, I fear that something like this in the US will bring about folks who put off going to a shrink in lieu of their gun rights. We shouldn’t have to fear prosecution for “sitting on the couch” nor should we have to worry about losing our right to self defense if we’re on anti-depressants. Mental illness is a VERY vague term, a gigantic gray area. If the pols get their mitts into mental health, we’ll all be under scrutiny for simply believing in conservatism.

[catman67]

Coming to America through ObamaCare!

[muawiyah]

This is another good reason for rejecting the credentials of any more UK doctors coming to the USA to make the big bucks.

They cannot be trusted to maintain confidentiality!

[Cardhu]

"...we’ll all be under scrutiny for simply believing in conservatism."

Sounds like a reasonable indicator to me... :)

[Gay State Conservative]

I don’t see how this makes much difference.There are only about 27 (legal) gun owners in Britain today.

[rarestia]

If anything, I think that believing in conservatism is a sign of mental sanity. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

[quintr]

I have been a mental health counselor since for many years and part of the problem, as I see it, is that mental health is “governed” by a medical model and included in states’ insurance codes.

I agree that this is a breach of confidentiality. Revoking licensure is where states have the mental health professionals.

Child abuse, threats of harm to self and others are already allowable as breaches to confidentiality because mental health counselors are defined as “mandated reporters.”

I believe that mental health professionals should have privileged communication between themselves and clients — not confidentiality which is subject to subpoena and other reporting requirements.

I explain this difference to clients in their first session. I will say that the ordinary person doesn’t know the difference between confidentiality and privileged communication. I will admit it’s a fine line difference but it’s an important one.

— Jane Reinheimer

[rarestia]

Jane, I worked in a mental health hospital and was often forced to report on conversations I’d have with specific patients at the end of my shift. I had to report any suicidal talk or ideation as well as negative or flat affect, despondence, lack of response to psychopharmaceuticals, and any marks or bruises on the body that might indicate cutting or hesitation of harm.

I always felt like I was betraying the trust of the patient when I wrote these reports, but I valued the care that our psychologists provided to them when they were obviously unfit to care for themselves. That being said, I worry that similar expectations will fall upon our LCSWs and standard clinical psychologists whenever a patient seeking someone to talk to mentions suicide or other personal mental issues. This will damage the industry as those who are genuinely mentally unstable will put off seeing a professional in lieu of self-treatment through recreational drug use or alcoholism.

[Winniesboy]

There are only about 27 (legal) gun owners in Britain today.

The actual number of active gun licences, including shotgun certificates, as of March 2009 was 1,819,465

[Anti-Bubba182]

"...In order for doctors to know which patients have guns, the medical records of patients holding or applying for firearms licences would be "flagged"......"

Coming to Obamacare Near You!

[Gay State Conservative]

The actual number of active gun licences, including shotgun certificates, as of March 2009 was 1,819,465

That many? In a modern,"progressive" European country? I'm stunned.How many of those are issued to policemen,soldiers,other government officials and celebrities?

[Gay State Conservative]

Child abuse, threats of harm to self and others are already allowable as breaches to confidentiality because mental health counselors are defined as “mandated reporters.”

Although I'm not a mental health counselor myself I've worked alongside of many in my day (I worked for 20 years in a large hospital's ER).I understand the importance of confidentiality but I also understand the importance of public safety.In my work I came across some pretty "spooky" folks...as I suspect you have.When does "the public good" supersede personal privacy in a situation like that?

[Gay State Conservative]

Child abuse, threats of harm to self and others are already allowable as breaches to confidentiality because mental health counselors are defined as “mandated reporters.”

Although I'm not a mental health counselor myself I've worked alongside many in my day (I worked for 20 years in a large hospital's ER).I understand the importance of confidentiality but I also understand the importance of public safety.In my work I came across some pretty "spooky" folks...as I suspect you have.Some of them,IMO,were not fit (at that time,at least) to be in possession of a butter knife let alone a firearm.When does "the public good" supersede personal privacy in a situation like that?

[Winniesboy]

Here's the article (from a British shooting website) from which I got that figure:

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/450408/Strong_growth_in_shotgun_and_firearms_ownership.html

The myth that all Britons 'had their guns taken away' dies hard among Freepers.

[Winniesboy]

Sorry that URL doesn't want to post as a link for some reason, but I hope you'll still be able to raise it....

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/450408/Strong_growth_in_shotgun_and_firearms_ownership.html

[TexasRepublic]

“If the pols get their mitts into mental health, we’ll all be under scrutiny for simply believing in conservatism.”

We could see worse than that. In the former Soviet Union, some dissenters were accused of mental illness for not recognizing the virtues of Communism and were tortured with powerful mind-altering drugs as “treatment”.