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Posted on 03/12/2010 11:31:04 AM PST by Kaslin
Tyranny is afoot. And this evil arrives in the guise of secondhand books and cheap Chinese trinkets. So beware.
Actually, if anyone ever needed an obvious illustration of how government overreach can damage an economy, he need look no further than the Colorado Legislature's foolish attempt to wheedle a few extra bucks out of consumers via an Internet sales tax.
After legislation forcing online companies to collect sales tax passed, Amazon.com moved to protect its consumers and long-term interests by severing its ties with Colorado. Unfortunately, this meant closing its associates program, which involved an estimated 5,000 jobs.
Amazon's actions were not surprising, as it did the same in North Carolina and Rhode Island (a state, incidentally, that reportedly saw no additional revenue generated after passing a similar law taxing Internet sales).
"They've done nothing here but spit in our face," bristled Colorado Senate Majority Leader John Morse in a ludicrous rant on YouTube, wherein he went on to describe Amazon's actions as "such tyranny!" Tyranny? Imagine that.
Seeing as we're throwing incendiary words around, it should be noted that Morse's actions are a far better fit for the definition. The dictionary, after all, defines tyranny as "oppressive power exerted by government" or a "government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler."
Besides, Amazon does not possess the power to compel its will on any Colorado citizens. All Amazon can do is pick up and leave. The state, on the other hand, does have the ability to coerce both taxpayers and corporations.
Once you get past the hyperbole of embarrassed legislators, the argument -- and it has appeal -- is that there is a lack of "fairness." Why should online stores have an advantage over the traditional stores in the state?
Well, Amazon came up with better technology; it offers better services; and thus far, it has a far superior business model. That's why. Let's leave the slippery concept of "fairness" to toddlers and legislators.
Amazon and other similar online stores offer a nearly infinite array of choices at affordable prices. Their success hurts many on-the-ground businesses, no doubt, but it also benefits millions of consumers, who save money. The tax savings that consumers get from Internet purchases will be spent elsewhere -- more than likely in bricks-and-mortar establishments.
But let's not forget that legislators also packed the bill with punitive measures and mandates that resemble, gulp, "tyranny."
Online businesses would be required to not only notify consumers to pay taxes but also hand over consumer sales records, and if they didn't, they would pay fines for every violation -- many beyond their control.
And as a recent Tax Foundation study on "Amazon laws" concluded, online companies would have to deal with more than 8,000 different tax computations should every state join Colorado's effort. Amazon would be nuts not to fight.
Still, you can understand why some folks are angry. ProgressNow, a liberal advocacy group, has launched a boycott of Amazon, which is a fine way to make a point, though I suspect its impact will be as small as the national Whole Foods boycott (which started after John Mackey, the company's CEO, had the gall to offer some constructive ideas on health care reform).
One only wishes that citizens could boycott irascible and intrusive state legislators -- with their knee-jerk, ill-informed, anti-capitalist sentiment -- who are willing to risk the jobs of thousands of citizens for a couple of million bucks in the state's coffers.
Alas, no such luck.
I may have to buy another book from Amazon today.
You spit first, A$$hole.
I may have to buy another book from Amazon today.
I’m thinking of buying a Kindle and a lot of books. Screw nazis.
BTW, I have been wondering when our progressives would attack a progressive technology to pay for our progressive hammock dwellers?
It’s a bad idea unless you are a brick and mortar retail store that has to compete Internet sellers who can afford to make a few pennies per sale because they have little or no costs up front.
If there is going to be an internet tax, if I had to live with one, I would hope that it would be structured as follows:
Average the normal state sales tax rate for the shipping source and destination. Seller collects the tax and then send 1/2 to each state.
That will encourage Internet retailers to move their shipping operations out of high tax states and move to lower tax states.
They make it too darn easy, don’t they?!? One click ordering and the thing is in your mailbox in 3-4 days.
No wonder government hates it - it’s efficient.
Internet tax a bad idea.
Most kinds of taxes are bad ideas.
As they said about so many things,
Level the playing field.
I support this.
I am the UberNannySturmFuhrer now.
More rules, more taxes, more regulations.
Let no one escape the enveloping blanket of government’s good intentions.
Another ignorant attempt to describe the situation.
States require people to pay sales tax. States require companies selling to their people to pay sales tax. Federal law doesn’t provide the ability for states to require out-of-state companies to collect sales tax.
Amazon has relationships with in-state companies, and therefore can be required to collect sales tax.
When asked to do so, Amazon screws it’s local affiliates instead of collecting the sales tax. Amazon also uses accounting tricks to avoid having to collect sales tax.
This has nothing to do with Amazon being “better” at serving people than other companies. Amazon gets a competitive advantage because it enables people cheat on their tax obligations, taxes that states have a right to collect.
This has nothing to do with it being “too hard” for Amazon. There are dozens of national companies that have online sales, and ALL of them collect sales tax throughout the country on their online sales. And yet a guy who professes that Amazon is so much better than these other companies wants us to believe that Amazon is incapable of doing what all these other companies do.
Walmart.com, Target.com, BarnesAndNoble.com, Borders.com, rei.com, sears.com, kmart.com, blackanddecker.com, payless.com — all these and hundreds more companies have brick-and-mortar shops in most if not all states, and have to collect sales tax on a state-by-state basis for all their customers.
Heck, Amazon.com also has to collect sales tax for SOME of it’s customers, since Amazon hasn’t yet decided to establish their entire business outside the country. So they already collect the information they need to figure out whether taxes are due.
But Amazon.com has an unfair competitive advantage over Borders.com — if they can both deliver a book to your house for the exact same price, Amazon.com comes out ahead because they can help the consumer cheat on their taxes.
For example. In Virginia, consumers are required to file a “consumer use tax” at the end of each year for any year they purchase more than $100 worth of goods for which no sales tax is collected.
So in fact, Amazon.com is also screwing it’s customers. Because Amazon won’t collect sales tax, people in Virginia have to collect all of their receipts all year, and fill out forms.
Of course, in reality nobody pays this tax, even though the law says you need to, and the state can throw you in jail. In 2008, only 285 people filed the forms.
But the point is, states can make their citizens pay sales tax. Amazon isn’t “helping the consumers”, they are trying to undercut stores with presense in the states by helping citizens cheat on their taxes.
We should pass a federal law that establishes the right of states to have sales tax collected from online businesses. THe law could require states to provide an internet-accessable capability to determine sales tax rate given a zip code, and a single collection point for the state. The state could then distribute to local governments if there are local taxes.
We live in the 21st century, the computer age. In 1992, it might have been hard for a company to keep track of all the different sales taxes. In 2010, it’s trivial, and companies are doing it right now.
Defending Amazon like it’s some little guy is ludicrous. They are screwing around with their affiliates, all so they can keep an unfair competitive advantage.
Lest someone complain that “conservatives are for lower taxes”, that is true, but that fight is in the state legislatures for sales tax. Conservatives are for people to PAY the taxes they owe. We laugh at liberals who are found to be tax cheats. Amazon helps people be tax cheats.
HB 1193 as amended requires retailers to collect the sales and use tax; if they do not the retailer is to notify customers by Jan. 31 of each year that the customers are responsible for paying the sales tax.Amazon screwed it's affiliates so it wouldn't have to tell customers that they were cheating on their taxes. That's the principle some people are defending here -- the right of Amazon to not have to tell customers that they owe the sales tax Amazon isn't collecting.
Of course, Amazon doesn't want to tell anybody that they aren't really getting a "good deal". They don't want their customers realizing that the sales tax is due even if Amazon doesn't collect it.
In fact, Amazon encourages a false notion, because they have a "sales tax" line on their shopping carts. You fill out your information, and they "tell" you how much "sales tax" you owe.
Go check it out. Right before you "place your order", you will see an "estimated sales tax" on your order summary. For most of you, it will say "0.00". And it has a note attached, and if you go down to the bottom and check out the note, the note says: "*Why has sales tax been applied? See tax and seller information".
So an unsuspecting customer could easily believe that Amazon checked the state laws, and determined that no sales tax was due from the customer. When in fact, the customer OWES the sales tax, but Amazon has simply not collected it.
They get away with this because most Americans these days, even conservatives, have been taught that cheating on their taxes is OK.
But the states are prohibited from collecting a sales tax on interstate sales because it's unconstitutional. So they come up with the idea of a "use tax" which is the exact same percentage as the sales tax and only "due" on items where sales tax hasn't been collected.
So sales tax is supposedly unconstitutional, but the stat[ist]s come up with something that passes the duck test for being a sales tax, and the Enablers-in-Cheif (courts) just go ahead and allow them to act on that fiction because they managed to find a different word to call it. (And here I thought judges worked for US!)
No wonder government hates it - it’s efficient.
One of the greatest things about the Internet is the speed, aka. customer service, at which you get what you order.
I remember having to mail in a catalog orders and then wait six to eight weeks for my purchase to arrive. Those old companies that have survived have had to change their shipping and receiving models and now, if I order on-line, I get my purchased goods in about a week.
I do love technology as it applies to this! :-)
The idiots insistent upon collecting mega taxes at the cost of mega-jobs are cutting their own throats. Where will their tax dollars come from if people move, lose their jobs, homes, and cars, and don't buy anything in their state that they absolutely positively don't have to buy? Only when their mercury tainted lightbulb ideas crack will they have an idea what they've wrought!
Or if you are an online company which also thinks it’s nice for customers to have real stores to go into, and therefore has to collect the sales tax.
BTW (this is a general comment), having JUST confirmed that Amazon had a “note” on an order, I went back and created another order, and the “note” is now gone. Hmm.
I am confused. It is a sales tax or an internet tax? We pay sales taxes in most cases when we buy something locally. An internet tax implies it is a tax on the internet. In VA we qre required to pay a tax on internet items purchased.
The issue is, how can states collect taxes on an item that is regulated federally via the commerce clause?
OK, I did some more checking. Sometimes Amazon includes a “note” on their sales tax, and sometimes not. And in the note, it explicitly states that they are going to check, that the sales tax they show may not be right, but that the correct sales tax will be charged to your card.
Under those circumstances, how could any customer think they have to do their own sales tax?
Some online retailers already collect taxes in VA, like Underarmour, Nike, and Neiman’s.
That means Amazon already knows how to calculate the tax for all but two states, and it would be NO ADDITIONAL BURDEN for them to do the calculation for all purchases.
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