Russia Now: Remembering Russia's sacrifice in World War Two

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/russianow/6281732/Russia-Now-Remembering-Russias-sacrifice-in-World-War-Two.html ^

[kronos77]

Albert Axell, the American military writer, historian and author of Marshall Zhukov: The Man Who Beat Hitler, explains just how much the West has undervalued the Soviet Union’s contribution to victory over Nazi Germany in the Second World War.

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Do you believe people are still interested in WWII, which was over a fairly long time ago?

My friend, a British professor, told me about a survey that revealed striking ignorance: 95pc of young people in the UK believe Germany was an ally of their country in that war, whereas the Soviet Union was the enemy.

Today most Americans know nothing about Marshal Zhukov. And neither do the British. Yet I would like the contemporary generation in the West to fully realise to whom we owe our existence. That is why I wrote my books.

By writing your books you tipped the balance so heavily towards recognition of the role of the Soviet Union in winning WWII that a number of generally loyal observers were rattled. I heard British historians and journalists say that, although until recently the role of the USSR in WWII had been understated, you promoted it to the point of exaggeration.

I can responsibly say that most Western historians who are not politically engaged do share my point of view. No other nation in the world was prepared for such a heroic effort and sacrifice as the people of Russia. In Great Britain, WWII claimed about 300,000 soldiers and civilians, whereas the Soviet Union lost about 27m. Is it possible to “exaggerate” the price the Russians paid for the victory?

[Frantzie]

The same Soviets who attacked Finland in 1939?

[US Navy Vet]

AND if Stalin hadn’t killed all of those millions by purges in the 1930s then the Soviet Union would have had all of those people to assist in the fighting.

[dfwgator]

I seem to recall that Ukrainians were used more as cannon fodder than the Russkies.

[SandWMan]

Is it possible to exaggerate the pure, murderous evil that was the Soviet Union?

The USSR was probably even more ruthless than NAZI Germany. We should have let them kill each other off.

[dfwgator]

And the Soviet Union started the war along with Germany. So in many ways it’s their own fault.

[NavVet]

And the same Soviets that invaded Poland from the East, while they were fighting the Germans on the Western Front.

Just because the Nazi’s turned on them, doesn’t change the fact that they started out on the same side. Also, the fact that they enslaved 1/2 of Europe after the war makes me just a little less grateful than I otherwise would be.

[BlueLancer]

Or those Russian soldiers who were sent to the gulags and work camps in Siberia for the simple crime of being prisoners of war of the Germans. I wonder if they're counted by the "historians" as casualties of the war?

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RESISTOR

Swear allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer;
Never hint at what you really feel.
Teach the children quietly for, someday, sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still.

Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK)

[VanDeKoik]

Both sets of socialist took out enough of each other so that they couldn’t turn them on us.

So it’s a win-win.

[BlueLancer]

In wargaming .. Steel Panthers, etc .. the only thing better than killing Nazis is killing Communists.

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RESISTOR

Swear allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer;
Never hint at what you really feel.
Teach the children quietly for, someday, sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still.

Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK)

[kronos77]

Now.
Stalin was a maniac. No doubt.
But in teh other hand during 1936, 1937 and 1938 USSR tried to ally itsekf with UK and France. During Spanish Civil war, USSR snet aid, man and arms to govt. troops so they can fight against fascists.
UK and France issued embargo, letting Hitler and Franco to their “magic”.

As I live in ex communist country, only one that said “No” to Stallin and lived to tell the story- I can testify that we Serbs, (Yugoslavs) did not wanted to live under Stalins Rule.

But newer, ever did we mixed Red Army fighters with Stalin.
Russiand did brought freedom and destroyed nazism in europe.
With biggest and greatest sacrefice , maybe in history.

All of us are here, on FR telling all sorts of stories because, Red Army captured Berlin and defeated Nazis.

If not, We wouldn be here.

[BlueLancer]

"When the Allies were struggling in the Ardennes, Churchill called out to Moscow: “Please, help us!” and Stalin, with Zhukov, came to their rescue by stepping up pressure on the Eastern Front. The offensive meant yet more tonnes of Soviet blood. But they helped the Allies. Churchill appreciated that, and thanked the Soviet Union."

This is the same Stalin, I assume, who kept demanding a second front in Europe, whether or not the British and Americans were prepared, on the threat that Russia would make a separate peace with Germany if a second front wasn't launched? The same Stalin who ordered his troops to stand by while the Warsaw ghetto was destroyed and razed even though they were in a position to have assisted.

What a saint that Stalin was ---

[dfwgator]

And the same Soviets that invaded Poland from the East

And after the war, the Soviets kept the land they took from Poland in 1939.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

That they lost the the post WWII PR war due to Communist secrecy is their own damn fault. Starting in the late 40s American, allied leaders, generals, and writers put tons of ink to paper about the war. Some even said we wrote too much. By the 60s even the Germans and Japanese were getting into the act.

[dfwgator]

All of us are here, on FR telling all sorts of stories because, Red Army captured Berlin and defeated Nazis.

Patton could have beaten the Russkies to Berlin, but he was told that Berlin was reserved for the Russians. And the Germans would not have put up nearly the resistance against the Americans that they put up against the Russkies.

[kronos77]

Stalin was moron,
but he did had best generals of the war.

Lets not forget that Roosevelt asked Stalin for second front against Japan too.

[dfwgator]

Stalin was moron, but he did had best generals of the war.

And the Generals' reward after the war was demotion, in the case of Zhukov.

[BlueLancer]

"Lets not forget that Roosevelt asked Stalin for second front against Japan too."

Which, of course, was never opened until just days before the end of the war. Some friends ...

[dfwgator]

Lets not forget that Roosevelt asked Stalin for second front against Japan too.

In retrospect, it's probably a good thing that didn't happen, because a Japanese Civil War would have made the Korean War look like a cakewalk.

[Little Ray]

Ummmm, World War II probably would not have happened if Stalin hadn’t signed the Non-Aggression Treaty with Nazi Germany and divvied up Poland with them.
The Soviet Union deserved a LOT worse than what it got in WWII.