Romney slaps Steele over Mormon comments [Steele caves, apologizes to Romney] [RINO fight]

The Hill, Washington, DC ^ | 2009-05-11 | Reid Wilson

[American_Centurion]

Nice to see the GOP is so united!

Romney doing his job. Liberal-pretend-conservative causing problems in the party. It is intentional.

[ansel12]

I haven’t said anything anti Mormon here but you are making personal attacks against me.

All your posting to me on this thread is personal and an attack.

You don’t post facts or truthful information, you just keep telling me to not post anything unless it serves the Romney campaign purposes.

You are always campaigning for your candidate but you do it in the most disgusting, personal and ineffective manner.

[broncobilly]

There are two reasons.
1) It has to do with not just post #20, but the anti-Mormon comments ansel12 continually posts.
2) It has to do the directing people to sections in book stores with books taking Mormons to task. I know about those sections. I am a lover of books. I go in book stores wherever I travel. I am interested in religion, and I go in religious book stores, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Eastern religions, etc. The only religious book stores that have sections on Mormons are the fundamentalist Protestant stores, mostly Southern Baptist. The books are hate books filled with false information.

[ansel12]

Wow, you should let me know when you are attacking me.

Your religious bigotry is so strong that you continue to lie, I didn’t post anything anti Mormon.

The Christian churches that people belong to all agree that Mormonism is not Christian, that is just a statement of fact. When a Catholic knows that the Catholic church says that Mormons are not members of a Christian church then she might want to read more about that, why should a Christian bookstore keep a good Catholic from the teachings of their church, to serve you instead?

If you want to attack the Catholic church then go ahead but don’t lie about me for knowing and posting their position.

[ikeonic]

I couldn't agree more with MinuteGal.

I've been a Steele support for many years, but his lack of tact and awareness of what he's saying is disturbing to say the least. What possible good could come from the RNC chairman making such comments about a prominent Presidential candidate?

His job is to promote Republican principles, market them to the masses and help get Republicans elected. Leave the prognostication about why Romney lost in the primaries to Rush and Karl Rove. The current RNC chairman ought not to be publicly telling people his gut beliefs as to why someone like Romney lost.

If he wants to opine on why traitorous scum like Arlen Specter left the GOP, that's fine. But Michael should respectfully decline to engage in analysis on why loyal team players like Romney failed to win. Take a lesson from the sports world, Michael, and observe the way a classy guy like Joe Torre comments when asked about his players' failures. A good coach knows when to help heal the wounds and put the focus on the team and the future instead of getting sucked into a meaningless discussion about a player's past failures.

By the way, the liberals at Huffington Post read every last comment Freepers make about Steele. Know thy enemy...

Here's a choice quote Sam Stein at HuffPo got from a Freeper: "Steele is now calling out members of the Republican Congress who 'are getting it wrong,'" read one entry. "And he used a sports analogy -- if a player isn't doing his job the coach replaces him. This makes me want to take up drinking again."

I used a sports analogy too. Better start drinking again!

[ansel12]

I've been a Steele support for many years, but his lack of tact and awareness of what he's saying is disturbing to say the least. What possible good could come from the RNC chairman making such comments about a prominent Presidential candidate?

Steele finally did something that conservatives could support, to quote Jim Robinson 4/30/2009

"But Romney is a NO go. And I don't care who this socialist, abortionist, homosexualist, constitution trampling bastard picks for running mate. If Romney's in I'm out! G.O.P., R.I.P! "

[Mount Athos]

I am burned out on michael steele

[Elsie]

But you help make it a hostile environment for Mormons, and in that you help make the site less effective.

 

Do you agree with the evidence of HOSTILITY against PRESBYTERIANism as it is presented here?

 

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,

“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

 

 

 

[Elsie]

What was said in post #20 that is hate?

Romney's ring was not kissed: therefore - HATE!!

[Elsie]

2) It has to do the directing people to sections in book stores with books taking Mormons to task.

 

 

Well I, for one, am just APPALLED that this happens!  On FR of ALL places!!!

 

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Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):

 

Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).

 

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

 

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[Elsie]

The books are hate books filled with false information.

I'll try to correct this, with selections from AUTHORIZED LDS quotes and printings...

[Zakeet]

There was an element in the GOP base, namely some Christian conservatives, who regard Mormonism as something less than Christian in nature.

It is ludicrous to assert Mormons are Christian for at least three reasons

FIRST: MORMONISM REJECTS MANY ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES

I suggest you check out the article: We're Christians just like you! wherein the author presents a number of well-annotated examples.

If necessary, dozens of additional articles and illustrations can be found on this WEBSITE alone.

SECOND: THE MORMON CHURCH UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY

And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of them – Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20

Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167

The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176

Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127

Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ."No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7

If still not convinced, you can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE and HERE.

THIRD: THE MORMON CHURCH ITSELF REJECTS CHRISTIANITY

Beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormon prophets have steadfastly proclaimed all Christian denominations were in a state of apostasy.

This raises an interesting question. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can be something you have completely dismissed? How does that work?

[SWAMPSNIPER]

I don't feel qualified to pass judgement, and consign anyone to Hell, on doctrinal details.

Where did you get your authority?

I attended an LDS service once, and said the same thing to them.

I'll continue to judge people by their works!

[broncobilly]

One cut-and-paste deserves another:

Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc. any truth. Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world, and treasure them up, or we will not come out good “Mormons.” Joseph Smith, D.H.C. vol. 5, p. 517. 1844

For any church, country, nation, or other group to believe that it is the only people in whom God is interested, or that it has special merit because of color, race, or belief, that they are inherently superior and loved by God, without regard to the lives they live, is not only a great and dangerous fallacy, but is a continuing barrier to peace. . . . Let us steadfastly avoid such demoralizing arrogance. The most important problems facing us in working on a long range program for peace is a tolerant and sympathetic understanding between races and creeds.
Hugh B. Brown, LDS Conference, April 1966.

I do not believe that three-hundred-fifty millions of people that live in China in a state of heathen darkness are created to live in this state, and be damned because they do not have the right religion. I do not believe that all the nations that worship various kinds of idols, in different parts of the earth, and knowing nothing about the true God, will be consigned to be burned in fire hereafter, because they know no better than to worship as they do. . . . I was going to say I am not a Universalist, but I am, and I am also a Presbyterian, and a Roman Catholic, and a Methodist. In short, I believe in every true principle that is embodied in any person or sect, and reject the false. If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it. I care not what shape it comes to me, who brings it, or who believes it, whether it is popular or unpopular.
John Taylor (third President of the Church)
Salt Lake City, Utah
1853

This is the Mormon theory of God’s revelation to the children of men. While The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men; and is one of God’s instrumentalities in making known the truth, yet he is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. God raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fullness of truth such as may be found in the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God; among all nations, and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them. . . Confucius, , , ,Buddha, . . . the sages of Greece and Rome, . . . the reformers of early Protestant times. . . .
B. H. Roberts.

[ansel12]

Why won’t you respond to my post 44?

[SWAMPSNIPER]

The most "Christian" man I ever knew was a devout Jew. He spent his entire life caring for and loving everyone around him. If there ever was a prince among men, it was Jerome Kass, and there is surely a spot in Heaven for him.

Don't tell me you have to jump through particular hoops to serve God and man, I just won't buy it.

[broncobilly]

When I read your posts I am reminded of the scripture where the Savior said: “Ye know not manner of Spirit ye are of.” He said it in rebuke to two apostles who wanted to bring down fire on a city who offended them.

I repeat something I said to you before:
Can’t you get it through your head that the real enemy is the secular, anti religion, anti God, Marxist, policies of the Democrat party. Many denominations and religions are represented in the conservative cause and the Republican party. We need unity in fighting are real enemy, not the propagating of your hates.

The fact that you are so wrapped up in your eagerness to attack the Mormons, so willing to hijack FR for this purpose, makes me write you off as a lost cause.

[ansel12]

Why do you ignore my posts and lie instead.

Why shouldn’t a Catholic bookstore or any Christian bookstore carry books on the Catholic churches teachings?

[AuntB]

“I repeat something I said to you before:
Can’t you get it through your head that the real enemy is the secular, anti religion, anti God, Marxist, policies of the Democrat party. Many denominations and religions are represented in the conservative cause and the Republican party. We need unity in fighting are real enemy, not the propagating of your hates.”

They don’t hear that message, we’ve all tried. The biggest plague on this earth to some is Mormons. Is Mormonophobe a word?

[broncobilly]

It is so difficult to have an intelligent exchange with you, because you can’t even read or comment logically.

Never did I say Catholics shouldn’t carry any books whatsoever. I said that in visiting Catholic book stores I don’t find sections of hate Mormonism books. I considered that a compliment to them.

Your inability to keep such simple things straight in your mind makes me wonder about the nature of the person I am interacting with. What is it?