Posted on 05/02/2009 12:54:59 PM PDT by ReformationFan
The Georgia Dome, home of the Atlanta Falcons football team, was recently crowded with cheering fans and adrenaline-filled competitors. A thrilling competition crowned new champions. But this was not a football game. It was a robotics competition for high school students interested in engineering, a program that now attracts about 200,000 student-competitors and nearly 100,000 volunteers.
Known as FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology), this program demonstrates that there is no shortage of American engineering minds. Started nearly 20 years ago by Dean Kamen, the inventor of the clever Segway that officials scoot around on, this competition develops future American engineers.
The students are extraordinarily diverse, coming from public and private schools and homeschools, rich and poor, urban and rural, athletic and disabled. Colleges provide up to $10 million in scholarships.
Obviously, there is no shortage of teenage interest and aptitude in engineering. But their prospects for good American jobs are very limited.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldviewtimes.com ...
Agreed.
“An astounding 60 percent of the top science students in the United States and 65 percent of the top math students are the children of immigrants. In addition, foreign-born high school students make up 50 percent of the 2004 U.S.Math Olympiad’s top scorers, 38 percent of the U.S. Physics Team, and 25 percent of the Intel Science Talent Search finalists—the United States’ most prestigious awards for young scientists and mathematicians.”
^ a b Anderson, ‘The Multiplier Effect’, International Educator. 2004.
33% of science and engineering PhD candidates are foreign born. We are not educating and graduating enough American born science and engineering students at the Masters and PhD level. Just drop by a college of engineering and see how many students are born in the USA.
Maybe the H1-B visas are part of the problem, but it isn’t the entire problem. I know too many people who are frustrated by the lack of qualified American candidates for technical jobs. My neighbor works for a geotechnical company and was looking for a geotechnical/groundwater modeling engineer. He showed me the stack of resumes he received. There were only 2 which were American, the other 95 were foreign born.
Could this be part of the reason?
To make matters worse, 2/3’s of all the engineers and scientists in the US are within 5 years of retirement.
Raise wages and you will attract more people into the profession over time. That is the American capitalist way. Further, you have to educate young people to get them into the pipeline for math and science related careers. My kids have had some very fine math and science teachers in their public schools. That isn’t always the case, and my wife and I moved to where we live to get into a good school district. Others who are not so fortunate are going to have to work harder on their own. Cutting the rewards for their efforts won’t encourage them (i.e. higher taxes and or a change in policy that allows for more foreign competition into the country).
Reference, please? I'm not doubting you but I'd like to see it for myself.
In her article, she talks about wages being depressed by 7% compared. Given that the median national salary for an engineering major is $113,000 which is more than three times as high as the median salary in the US, it's hard to argue about salary depression.
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| $98,620 | $113,106 | $129,071 |
The median expected salary for a typical Engineering Manager in the United States is $113,106. This basic market pricing report was prepared using Salary.com's Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies.
Source: http://www.elearners.com/guide-to-online-education/average-salary-for-engineering-degree-holders.asp
Looking at the salaries of recent engineering graduates, they are more than $10,000 over the average for other college majors. So there's obviously some incentive:
| Curriculum | Average Salary Offer |
|---|---|
| Chemical Engineering | $63,616 |
| Computer Engineering | $59,962 |
| Computer Science | $59,873 |
| Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering | $58,252 |
| Aerospace/Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering | $57,999 |
Source: http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?year=2008&prid=283
And as "ga medic" stated, many of the current engineering graduates are the children of foreigners. Somehow all those Asians dropping their children off at the Kumon Centers are not too worried about outsourcings impact on their children's careers.
Nope. It takes discipline to become an engineer. It's nice to compete in the robotics competition but it takes 4 long years in the science library to actually get the degree.
I R N ENGINEER.
So he has two applicants, he only needed one. Tell him to make his choice.
One can make just as much as a Registered Nurse with far more job security without nearly as demanding an education.
If the foreign born ones are legal immigrants or naturalized Americans, who cares. Nothing wrong importing legal, high skilled or wealthy immigrants into the US who will immediately become producers and taxpayers. Where our immigration policies go wrong is importing poverty and importing people who will can go nuts if someone drew a cartoon of their God. Never import poverty, never import crime, never import terrorism, never import cultural seperatists. If a nation does that, they have no one to blame but themselves or their government they elect.
And the h1b visa thing is a scum sucking joke, to tramp down the wages of American workers. You only need to watch the attorney giving the show on how to screw the program to under stand that.
AS I said the man has two applicants are he is Un-American as they come.
There are places that are ok, but engineering as whole is a shaky field to be in. Most HR managers would rather pay peanuts to five engineers in India than pay for one American.
Afraid I have to agree with you - engineering is not a respected profession in the US. It is a tough grind all the way through to earn a Bachelor’s. What’s taught doesn’t prepare you for the ‘real world’ - if you don’t keep renewing your knowledge base - after 4-5 years - you get dumped for a cheaper graduate just entering the work force. If you want to stay employed, you need to position yourself so you are a direct influence on the company revenue stream. Anyplace else, and you’re overhead and a target when someone cheaper comes along. And, being in IT isn’t going to save anyone - why do you think every vendor is concentrating on ‘process automation’? No one’s sales or marketing literature will say so - but the idea is to get rid of as much dependency on ‘talent’ as possible. Not all of the jobs are going away, but there are far more lucrative and secure professions.
Sure, all of us have to renew our knowledge base, all the time, but it is better to start with a degree in Engineering than social science.
Bernie Sanders of all people has a good idea— auction H1-Bs to the highest bidders to raise money for scholarships to help train Americans in science and math so that H1-Bs aren’t needed as much. We should be transitioning away from them and this is a way to do that and it doesn’t include deficit government spending.
That is what GE is pushing.
I got the 2/3’s figure from the headhunting agency that I use to get me resumes for prospective employees. The past few years have been dreadful for attracting people. Our last opening took almost a year to fill. Because of our contracts with the federal goverment, we can only employ US citizens.
The Navy is desperate for US citizen engineers, and the current ones all seem about 60.
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