Agreed.
“An astounding 60 percent of the top science students in the United States and 65 percent of the top math students are the children of immigrants. In addition, foreign-born high school students make up 50 percent of the 2004 U.S.Math Olympiad’s top scorers, 38 percent of the U.S. Physics Team, and 25 percent of the Intel Science Talent Search finalists—the United States’ most prestigious awards for young scientists and mathematicians.”
^ a b Anderson, ‘The Multiplier Effect’, International Educator. 2004.
33% of science and engineering PhD candidates are foreign born. We are not educating and graduating enough American born science and engineering students at the Masters and PhD level. Just drop by a college of engineering and see how many students are born in the USA.
Maybe the H1-B visas are part of the problem, but it isn’t the entire problem. I know too many people who are frustrated by the lack of qualified American candidates for technical jobs. My neighbor works for a geotechnical company and was looking for a geotechnical/groundwater modeling engineer. He showed me the stack of resumes he received. There were only 2 which were American, the other 95 were foreign born.
Could this be part of the reason?
To make matters worse, 2/3’s of all the engineers and scientists in the US are within 5 years of retirement.
In her article, she talks about wages being depressed by 7% compared. Given that the median national salary for an engineering major is $113,000 which is more than three times as high as the median salary in the US, it's hard to argue about salary depression.
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| $98,620 | $113,106 | $129,071 |
The median expected salary for a typical Engineering Manager in the United States is $113,106. This basic market pricing report was prepared using Salary.com's Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies.
Source: http://www.elearners.com/guide-to-online-education/average-salary-for-engineering-degree-holders.asp
Looking at the salaries of recent engineering graduates, they are more than $10,000 over the average for other college majors. So there's obviously some incentive:
| Curriculum | Average Salary Offer |
|---|---|
| Chemical Engineering | $63,616 |
| Computer Engineering | $59,962 |
| Computer Science | $59,873 |
| Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering | $58,252 |
| Aerospace/Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering | $57,999 |
Source: http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?year=2008&prid=283
And as "ga medic" stated, many of the current engineering graduates are the children of foreigners. Somehow all those Asians dropping their children off at the Kumon Centers are not too worried about outsourcings impact on their children's careers.
Nope. It takes discipline to become an engineer. It's nice to compete in the robotics competition but it takes 4 long years in the science library to actually get the degree.
I R N ENGINEER.
Bernie Sanders of all people has a good idea— auction H1-Bs to the highest bidders to raise money for scholarships to help train Americans in science and math so that H1-Bs aren’t needed as much. We should be transitioning away from them and this is a way to do that and it doesn’t include deficit government spending.
The FIRST Robotics competition is a lot of fun. Also a lot of work. Anyone on FR ever attended one?
Phyllis Schlafly is exactly right. We are creating strong incentives for Americans with the aptitude to become engineers to become something else instead, both through H1B visas and through our refusal to protect domestic manufacturing from foreign competition. (That, incidentally, was another reason to provide loans to GM and Chrysler: the American car companies do most of their engineering and research and development here; the Japanese do most of that work in Japan).
I used to do talks at local schools for Engineers’ Week. I would always ask the classes (8th graqders) how many were interested in being engineers - got very few hands. They were always scared of the math. The public schools in my area are very poor in math and science - the dozen or so football coaches all seem to end up teaching them, and they suck the life out of them. They teach rote manipulation in math instead of teaching the theories and what the stuff is good for, and they stick to fact memorization in science. Who wants to listen to that?
Who in their right mind would ever become an engineer when they can become the engineer’s manager by getting a 6 week certificate such as a PMP???
