Posted on 12/31/2008 12:34:02 PM PST by hreardon
While the exact details are still being ironed out, Gov. Kulongoski's web page gives the basics of the plan. In it he states, "As Oregonians drive less and demand more fuel-efficient vehicles, it is increasingly important that the state find a new way, other than the gas tax, to finance our transportation system."
He is creating a task force "to partner with auto manufacturers to refine technology that would enable Oregonians to pay for the transportation system based on how many miles they drive." Key studies were performed in 2006 and 2007 that indicate that such a program would indeed be possible.
In the 2007 test which lasted 10 months with 300 motorists at two service stations, drivers were taxed 1.2 cents per mile and were refunded the 24 cents a gallon state gas tax. When the motorists got to the pump, their vehicles connected to government computers informing them of the mileage (calculated via GPS tracking) and issuing tax. Equipment for the test came from Oregon State University.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailytech.com ...
This is STUPID...do the math. Lets say you drive 300 miles on a tank. The new tax would be 300 miles x 1.2 cents= $3.60.
Same scenario. 300 miles driven at 20 mpg = 15 gal of gas. 15 gal x 24 cent per gal tax is $3.60 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its just a way to PUNISH low MPG cars !!!
Blago's toll roads in Chicago do this. The toll doubles if you don't have the auto pay device..
You said — “Why stop at road users? To be sure, millions of Americans support the public school system, whether or not they have children or, whether they utilize the public schools, in the form of property “taxes”. (That I may profoundly disagree with what children are taught, and not taught)”
Well, when you said why stop at road users — you have to keep in mind that road users are already paying a gas tax. It’s a different way of paying it and apportioning it according to mileage instead of apportioning it according to gas used. It’s the same tax but a different way of “counting” it. It could be slightly more for some and slightly less for others
I’m really not sure how “counting the gas tax” on a particular car by a different methodology affects all other forms of taxes or thinking differently like a liberal. What I’m saying is that we’re already getting taxed on gas taxes. If they aren’t getting enough funds to fix the roads then raise the taxes. It’s that simple. If they think that apportioning it more according to strict mileage will work out better then it’s still a tax that people are paying, they are just paying it by a different “methodology” — not that they aren’t paying it at all.
My only concern would be in terms of “tracking” — which really has nothing at all to do with paying gas taxes...
Out of state cars have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You are saying this would remain a “voluntary” tax but the fact is it would the first step leading to the mandatory second step. I won’t even take the time to enumerate how many times liberals have made proposals with opt-out (or temporary) provisions just to turn around and make the issue a mandate (or permanent).
You said — “Blago’s toll roads in Chicago do this. The toll doubles if you don’t have the auto pay device..”
Well..., the “toll road capital” of the United States is Tulsa, OK... LOL.. Just about every direction you go out of Tulsa is a toll road. I’ve never seen worse...
But, I don have an “auto-pay-device” for both Oklahoma and Texas. It saves me time and saves me money. So, it’s not such a bad deal.
Be careful what you wish for.
This is just like the old argument that we should raise taxes on corporations, so that the public doesn't have to pay.
Follow the money, people...and you'll see that a gas tax is the same as a mileage tax is the same as a CO2 tax. It's only a question of who pays more.
You said — “Out of state cars have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You are saying this would remain a “voluntary” tax but the fact is it would the first step leading to the mandatory second step. I won’t even take the time to enumerate how many times liberals have made proposals with opt-out (or temporary) provisions just to turn around and make the issue a mandate (or permanent).”
No, I’m not saying that the “gas tax” is a voluntary tax. Not at all. The “gas tax” is a *mandatory tax* that everyone pays, regardless — and they pay it when they get gas at the gas station. That’s *already done* — as it stands right now.
The only thing different here is that they are wanting to have a *methodology* of computing that gas tax to be by (1) mileage-based, instead of (2) fuel-based [i.e., “by the gallon”]
So, you’re going to pay the *mandatory tax* regardless. There is not “voluntary” to it. That will never happen and has not happened.
What I’m saying is that there will *always* be a “gas-based” methodology in effect — because they *have to have it* because out-of-state vehicles won’t have the other “methodology”. That’s why.
It has nothing to do with “voluntary”...
Never go to Oregon. If you live there, leave now.
You said — “Be careful what you wish for.”
It’s simple arithmetic. If the roads are falling apart and you’ve got damage to vehicles because of bad roads and you have dangerous driving conditions (on those roads) — it’s simple arithmetic that if the current funds are not enough to fix them — then you have to raise the taxes.
There’s no other way around it — other than letting the roads deteriorate where hardly anyone can drive on them without damaging your car or having dangerous driving conditions (like bridges falling down, for example... LOL).
If people drive on the roads, they’re gonna have to pay the bill...
Strange how the Left is so worried about government in the bedrooms, but it now appears they don't mind government in the car.
Oregonians: Don't you DARE let your government destroy your privacy when traveling. Ant-tracks in the GPS memory will be fair game to anyone with a badge or court order and given how easy government can access your cell phone, toll road quick pass and other records, every detail of every mile you drove, when, how fast, where you stopped and for how long, will be there for the asking.
And who keeps telling you that the "funds" -- for ANY government program -- are not enough?
Have you been listening to the Democrats?
One more thing on that...
In Oklahoma (and somewhat in Texas), I already pay “more taxes” for certain roads that I drive on. I can “voluntarily” pay less taxes by driving on a slightly different road, usually not as fast and more congested and perhaps not as well kept up, but basically okay. But, I choose, many times to drive on the road with the higher taxes, because I can get there faster and it’s a lot easier and smoother driving. And that’s a lot more expensive in Texas and Oklahoma (by that methodology of paying road taxes) than what they’re talking about in Oregon.
In Tulsa, the road going to the NE is taxed more, the one going to the south to the border (one of them) is taxed more, the one going west to Oklahoma City is taxed more, the one going slightly north of that and to another Interstate is taxed more, the one going directly to the East is taxed more, and some other ones in Oklahoma are taxed more...
But, I’ve driven on all of them because it’s a lot quicker and more convenient and probably a bit safer, I would bet.
You said — “And who keeps telling you that the “funds” — for ANY government program — are not enough?”
With road taxes (from the gas tax), it’s pretty easy to see the things that the budget has been spent for. You drive on them every day. And, you can *certainly tell* when you’ve got bad roads. I can sure tell it when the roads are starting to split up, big chunks coming out of it and you hit hard with one of the front wheels, making you think that the car is going to come apart.
So, it’s not a difficult thing to track the road expenses in a state and see where the budget is going and see what happens when you drive on those roads.
Also, when bridges start crumbling and you’re driving over them every day, you kinda want them to still stay standing while you’re driving over them... LOL..
wastedyears wrote:If I understand this pilot test, the participants carried a state owned GPS device in their vehicles. This would report their mileage by a data connection to a special gas pump. When they bought gas, the guinea pigs got their gas tax refunded and a mileage tax collected.
Unless they’re going to declare themselves Communists and say every car in Oregon must have a GPS.
I'm sure the plan is that once the tax is in place, you won't be able to buy gas without carrying the device.
This is from the article above:
I'm pretty sure that a production version could use a wireless connection. Something like an encrypted Bluetooth link to the gas pump would work just fine. If they wanted, they could incorporate the device into your license plate.
In the 2007 test which lasted 10 months with 300 motorists at two service stations, drivers were taxed 1.2 cents per mile and were refunded the 24 cents a gallon state gas tax. When the motorists got to the pump, their vehicles connected to government computers informing them of the mileage (calculated via GPS tracking) and issuing tax.
I'd buy one if I went to Chicago more often or lived there. The double toll is certainly an incentive to buy the unit..
I read this yesterday... took forever before one person mentioned, to all the people complaining, this is what you get when you have a democratic governor, senate and legislature... another thing that had a lot of people upset was many up there spend most of their time driving on forest and logging roads, not state or federal highways.
You said — “Few know it but ONSTAR can be easily deactivated by removing the fuse . Im sure newer models wont have this defect in the future.”
Wirecutters will work... LOL...
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