Posted on 12/31/2008 12:34:02 PM PST by hreardon
You said — “Unless they’re going to declare themselves Communists and say every car in Oregon must have a GPS.”
Well, as I read it, a car that does not have the GPS-taxing-device will pay the gas tax the normal way — at the pump when buying gas (just the same). But, it will be 2 cents a gallon higher on the gas tax to pay it that way.
The gas tax is 24 cents/gal. Add 2 cents , total 26 cents.
At 1.2 cents/mile, you are paying 36 cents/ gal. tax.
10 cents/gal. more in tax under the GPS plan.
You said — “Did it ever occur to the Oregonian lawmakers to perhaps...wow, this is a wild idea...cut spending somewhere else? No, instead of analyzing departments, programs and employees to find savings, they pour their resources into finding more taxpayer arteries to tap. Legislators are vampires.”
Well, if I’m not mistaken, the gas tax is allocated specifically for “legislative-mandated road projects” and some associated programs (which they say is tied in with road usage). In other words, the gas tax can only be spent in very precise and specific areas. And other areas of the state budget are not used on the road expenses.
So, it’s an isolated budget that doesn’t depend on any other state expenditure and no other expenditures affect it.
In that case, if you want to fix the roads, you’ve got to have a corresponding amount of tax that is going to “pay the bill” for the cost that they must spend for fixing those roads.
Cutting the budget in another area of state expenditures would not affect the road repairs...
Understandable. But why should you want to do even that?
Frankly, I think I'd be more inclined to start cheating...
What is their justification for tracking non-commercial vehicle mileage?
And that's the problem. The "budget" of a state is simply the itemized listing of allocated tax revenue. Every budget is finite, and therefore every budget must have priorities. My problem is with the state of Oregon's priorities with their budget money.
You want better roads? Great. I do too. But the state budget places a low priority on funds to fix the problem. So what to do?
You reflexively champion a tax raise. I refuse to do that. I would demand a restructuring of the state's priorities. And if that means the elimination of a host of "progressive" social and educational programs, then so be it.
Before I would ever assent to another tax hike, I would DEMAND accountability.
hamburglar wrote:Quite the opposite. The tax is a flat amount per mile travelled.
Its just a way to PUNISH low MPG cars !!!
If you drive your Hummer 400 miles, you'll pay 400*$0.012=$4.80. Drive your Prius 400 miles and you'll pay 400*$0.012=$4.80.
There's no tax incentive for a more fuel efficient vehicle. It will cost the same no matter what vehicle you drive.
You said — “It is absolutely absurd for Oregon to ignore the obvious answer which requires no GPS BS: take the mileage added from one inspection year to the next and then do the math. I heard some caller on a talk show say that this is already done in NC. I don’t know if it true but the point still stands.”
I know that this is a conceivable way to do that. It makes sense. But, I think the reasoning here is that you pay gas taxes in smaller increments at the time you get gas, here and there. So, they want to have it remain as small increments for gas tax (the same as if you got a tank of gas) — rather than saving up for the entire year and then getting one “honkin’ big bill” at the end of the year... LOL...
You said — “You can’t track peoples every movement if you do that. And those movement records will most likely discoverable in any civil action.”
I think that new cars already have “black boxes” that can tell all sorts of things about the car, if you have an accident — that can also be used in a court of law. It’s nothing new with our newer cars these days.
I think I read that the On-Star system actually called someone and told them they were speeding at one time... LOL...
You said — “How is this fare to Oregonian drivers? This tax would let non resident drivers and vacationers drive through the state and use the roads without any contribution to their maintenance. At least with the gas tax anyone who fills up in a state is contributing in theory to road maintenance. As well, out of state residents would also get a windfall by filling up state tax free at the gas pumps if they live in a neighboring town in WA,ID,NV, and CA.”
No, you didn’t read up on it...
You will still have the gas tax at the pumps in the standard way. And, in addition, there will be Oregon cars that have the GPS-system for gas tax. Now, the GPS-system will charge about 2 cents a gallon less on gas taxes and on a per-mile basis.
The pumps will charge — two cent *higher* — than the GPS system and do it by “gallons purchased”. That’s how out-of-state vehicles and other Oregon drivers who don’t want the system will pay for the gas tax.
If this was to be implemented, I’d get together with friends and neighbors, pitch in to buy a used pickup truck and fit it with the GPS.
Then, once a week go down to the station (the time the truck is driven) with the bed filled loaded with 5 gallon cans and fill them all with tax free gas.
You said — “And that’s the problem. The “budget” of a state is simply the itemized listing of allocated tax revenue. Every budget is finite, and therefore every budget must have priorities. My problem is with the state of Oregon’s priorities with their budget money.”
You can check on this, as I can’t remember for sure, right now — but I’m fairly sure that, by law, the gas tax monies are strictly allocated to only road use items (and some items associated with that) and cannot be used on any other budget item in the state.
That would mean that all the money that comes from the gas tax would have to be used strictly for fixing those roads and nothing else (it’s legislatively required, according to my memory...).
Just another minimally invasive procedure from Gov. Kolonoscopy...
You asked — “Understandable. But why should you want to do even that Frankly, I think I’d be more inclined to start cheating...”
If your question is why would one want to pay gas tax, then I can answer that. I do see the rationale behind paying gas tax and the cost of roads that cars drive on. It makes sense to me.
As long as the gas tax is strictly allocated to the costs of roads, then that’s fine by me...
The Oregon Commies should get in touch with their North Carolina brethren.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2149238/posts
Well, as long as you're fairly sure...
You said — “Your premise is flawed. They are collecting plenty of money from gas taxes to fix the roads. The problem is that the money isn’t being spent on fixing roads. It is redirected to “other uses”. The unmaintained roads become an excuse to raise the taxes. That still won’t help if the money is stolen for “other purposes”. The problem is crooked politicians. Fix that first. You might actually get the roads fixed if they quit stealing the tax money.”
Well, I’ll speak to that issue for Oregon and for Oklahoma, since I’ve got experience with those two. I’ve already stated that I’m fairly sure that Oregon have specified, by law, that gas tax funds have to be spent on roads, and some associated items, too — and cannot be put into the general budget. Those items that it can be spent for (on gas taxes) must be in the area *as specified* in the law. Now, you can go and check on that and tell me different, if they’ve changed it. But, that’s the last I remember.
For Oklahoma, I also pay extra taxes for driving on certain roads, via the electronic box that they have which charges you by mile (approximately). I know that those funds that I pay for those roads go specifically and only for that road system and nothing else (nothing else, along with the administrative costs, too for operating it).
For the entire state budget, in Oklahoma for gas taxes and roads, I’m not entirely sure. But, I would be willing to bet that it also has to be spent on roads and most likely is not getting enough money to spend on all the repairs that the roads need. At least I can see that some roads need more repair (not to say anything about an Interstate bridge that went down a few years back... LOL...).
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