Ambush at Ruby Ridge

Reason Magazine ^ | October 1993 Print Edition | http://www.reason.com

[El Gato]

Punished? The highest federal agent there was promoted.

Many of the BATF paricipants, the on scene leadership then, are now heads of regional BATFE offices. Ready to enforce any and all gun laws passed by Stretch, Harry the Body, and signed by The One.

Expect that Show to start even before BHO is sworn in.. but not so soon that the bills reach the President's desk while it's still occupied by GW Bush, although he'd probably sign them too, at least a New and Improved AW ban, since he promised to sign a renewal of the AW Ban, and he is a man of his word.

[JDoutrider]

I followed this from day one. To this day my blood boils when this is resurrected, knowing the participants who murdered Vicky, and her son still have gone unpunished.

We best be on our highest alert with the Messiah Obeyme in charge. Any and all resistant to Obeyme's plans can expect the same treatment.

Like G.G. Liddy said: Aim for their heads, or crotch...

[Oztrich Boy]

Did Idi Amin’s State Research Bureau ever do any research?

[AndyJackson]

But he did not deserve our govt. to do what it did to him.

Far from trying to present a threat to law and order, it sounds as though Weaver was trying to get about as far away from the US government as he could. It sounds as though that was his real crime. When white folks don't earn enough to be taxed so you can spread the wealth around you are in real trouble.

[ASOC]

It won’t be the first time.

Last time they tried, the Army got their collective ass handed to themselves....

This time, who knows?

[Joe Boucher]

I see more and more white folks going the way of govt. handouts.
Use to be one got off ones butt and did for ones self.
Lost our pride.
Mr. Spence is a magician. I could not believe he was able to get Weaver off with a couple of insignificant charges.
I fear the same crew coming back with our new president elect. Gorelick and the rest, maybe he’ll get Reno back from the dead too.

[DuncanWaring]

Probably not, but I’d like to think we hold ourselves to a higher standard than Idi Amin’s Uganda. ;-P

[TenthAmendmentChampion]

Didn't they rescue Elian Gonzales?

/

[hattend]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2138747/posts?page=18#18

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2138289/posts?q=1&;page=1

Horiuchi is a spokesman for HS Precision firearms

[MileHi]

Horiuchi is a spokesman for HS Precision firearms

I will join that battle Monday.

[dragnet2]

LOL!!

[BIGLOOK]

Got a question. In light of the recent election of Obama, gun sales have gone through the roof. These weapons are legally obtained and owned and the right to own them is guaranteed under the 2nd Amendment.

If the incoming administration should by fiat or executive order opt to limit citizens' rights to posses arms or require citizens to surrender their arms, what is the sense of local LEOs to complying to with the fed's dictates? Are they going to go out and round 'em up?

If you're retired, you probably have an ear to the scuttlebutt around the area; if you're still active...well....

[oneolcop]

Sorry for the delay in answering. My belief, based on asking the question to federal and local LEO's is that initially, they would be inclined to follow the direction of "lawful" authority. this would not be true in all cases, but in many. Some would balk at the order, some would vigorously comply.

There will be casualties on both sides if this should come to pass. I think ultimately, the citizens would win. Law enforcement is accustomed to outright resistance by "citizens" (as opposed to dirtbags) who vehemently resist. If and when the casualties start to take place, there will be a rethinking process.

I'm particularly worried about young cops, who see it as their role in society to be "avenging angels"; "the law" and the ones who will decide who is right and wrong. It takes an average of about eight years of real, full-time experience to make a good cop. Some make it quicker, some never make it. Just like the rest of us, LEO's have to mature. If you look around you and try to evaluate the personalities of family members, neighbors, local officials, etc. you will note that there are varying levels of competence, maturity (or call it seasoning) and general understanding of the rules of life. In this country, we give 21 year- olds a small amount of training, a badge and gun and send them out to enforce our laws. There is occasionally a requirement that the officer have college education, and that is important, but far too rare.

As I said, some of these guys and gals will side with the constructionist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and some will follow their "leaders". All law enforcement/national security/military, etc. are dependent on government for a paycheck. That puts them in a dilemma. Do they lat out refuse to follow order and subject themselves (and their families) to termination and loss of all their material goods? Or do they follow their conscience and refuse unlawful orders? I hope that as things progress, law enforcement leaders will start to think beyond their first inclination to follow the orders of "the government" and start a sort of "guerrilla" operation in which they become extremely inept at finding the newly banned weapons.

I fear that we're about to find out.

[oneolcop]

Law enforcement is accustomed to outright resistance by "citizens" (as opposed to dirtbags) who vehemently resist.

Should read:Law enforcement is not accustomed to outright resistance by "citizens" (as opposed to dirtbags) who vehemently resist.

Do they lat out refuse to follow order and subject themselves (and their families) to termination and loss of all their material goods?

Should read: Do they flat out refuse to follow order and subject themselves (and their families) to termination and loss of all their material goods?

[BIGLOOK]

Thanks for the answer...a good one.

I think it will also depend on the areas of the country. It probably won't go over well in the mid west, north and south but in the northeast and west coast there are already problems over Second Amendment rights. We've all read in the news about the challenge to keep arms in Washington, DC over the prohibitions by the city. NYC could be the next challenge with the Plaxico Buress case. (Not defending Buress, he was just dumb, dumb enough to shoot himself and ought to have his weapon confiscated and permit revoked.)

A couple years ago, my brother in upstate NY was detained and searched in a supermarket parking lot by a town cop. He owns rifles, shotguns and handguns (most of which are family heirlooms) and has a carry permit but he wasn't packing and didn't have a weapon in his car. The town he lives in (and where I grew up) was once farms and railroads and IBM, hunting and trapping were fall and winter activities, woodchuck hunting for farmers paid well when I was a kid.

Now there's been a huge influx of commuters from the City and there's been a little war going with the local yokels. One from the bedroom community phoned the local constabulary without cause about my brother while he was at the market. Nothing happened since nothing was found and nothing amiss but that's the sort of liberal harassment that's creating animosity in the area.

This isn't the only instance of a growing liberal population who votes in town supervisors and councils changing the rules in rural community. A good friend of my brother (and mine) got his licenses revoked for his hot dog stand, which was very popular and forced to move into another township. I talked to him about it and he said it was BS but no big deal. He moved it about three miles away into another township and pays his taxes there. He is a retired NYC homicide detective.

[oneolcop]

You're certainly right in saying that it depends on what part of the country you live in. In flyover country where i live (now) carrying is almost the norm. Certainly when I see someone carrying, I size him/her up and decide whether to get out of range or not. I feel sorry for the good folks who live in places as you describe. Unfortunately, it's probably too late to do anything about the situation -until things get really bad. Then, the good guys (2nd A types) will have a definite advantage.

I wonder why so many people are so liberal/crazy.

[ComputerGuy]

Roger that

[BIGLOOK]

When I was a kid, farmers paid me to clear field of 'chucks'. If I was low on ammo, I'd head into town with my rifle to buy some more. A couple times along the highway, I was stopped by a NY State Trooper, routine check; No magazine, bolt out and checked my hunter's safety card....and asked me if I was having luck. When I got to the store, I'd hand my rifle to Betty at the front counter and head to the back where the gun rack and ammo was kept. Make my purchase and head out, collecting my rifle and get back to business.

I was fourteen then.

[oneolcop]

My experience like that was in upper lower Michigan. Mr. Whittaker’s farm. He supplied the ammo :)

[sport]

Wait until January 20, 2009.

They will start back up.