Obama’s View on Abortion May Divide Catholics ( "May Divide?" )

new york times ^ | August 7, 2008 | JOHN M. BRODER

[kellynla]

WASHINGTON — Sixteen years ago, the Democratic Party refused to allow Robert P. Casey Sr., then the governor of Pennsylvania, to speak at its national convention because his anti-abortion views, stemming from his Roman Catholic faith, clashed with the party’s platform and powerful constituencies. Many Catholics, once a reliable Democratic voting bloc, never forgot what they considered a slight.

This year, the party is considering giving a speaking slot at the convention to Mr. Casey’s son, Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, who like his late father is a Roman Catholic who opposes abortion rights.

The likely shift reflects concern among Democrats that they need to do more to regain the allegiance of Roman Catholic voters, who broke decisively for President Bush in 2004 and could be crucial to the outcome in a number of battleground states this year. Senator Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, lost the Catholic vote badly to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, who, like Mr. Obama, is a supporter of abortion rights, during the primaries in states like New Hampshire, Missouri and Ohio. In Pennsylvania, Catholic voters preferred Mrs. Clinton to Mr. Obama by a 40-point margin.

The Obama campaign is being close-mouthed about its convention plans and would not confirm whether Mr. Casey would be given a prime-time speaking slot. Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said that the call was Mr. Obama’s, but that a prominent speaking role for Mr. Casey would assist in the candidate’s efforts to woo Roman Catholic voters.

Mr. Casey, who endorsed Mr. Obama early and campaigned extensively for him in Pennsylvania, said there was no formal offer yet from Mr. Obama or the party. But, he said, “I think we’ll get something worked out.”

[kellynla]

No practicing Catholic can vote for Obama. PERIOD!

[kellynla]

ping

[captnorb]

Or Hillary

[ConorMacNessa]

Amen to that, FRiend!

[Bahbah]

You are correct, kelly.

[padre35]

Obama also desires to repeal DOMA.

[ardara]

All I would add to your very correct statement is that no informed practicing Catholic can vote for Obama.We must continue to inform people that Obama is the most anti-life candidate to ever run for president.

[libertylover]

Mr. Casey, who endorsed Mr. Obama early and campaigned extensively for him in Pennsylvania

Liberals are fond of pretending that preborn people are not people and fond of pretending that homsexuality is normal so why would they oppose Mr. Casey when he pretends to be Catholic?

[Gay State Conservative]

It doesn't divide Catholics.It divides Catholics from Unitarian/Universalists who masquerade as Catholics.

[wolfcreek]

Must be tough to be a Catholic and a...........Liberal.

The word *insincere* comes to mind.

[NEPA]

You're exactly right. I know a lot of people who call themselves Catholic but have absolutely no use for the moral teachings of the church.

Part of it is Catholics were historically democrats. Many of today's Catholics held onto the party but not the beliefs. They're clueless that there's even a problem there.

[Dr. Sivana]

Xasey voted against the Mexico City Policy, which prevents the funding of overseas abortions by taxpayers.

http://www.hli.org/press_releases_usual_suspects.html

Priest Blasts ‘Usual Suspects’ For Votes Against Pro-Life Policy

FRONT ROYAL, VA — The Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, STL, president of Human Life International, (HLI) today blasted a gang of 16 Catholic senators for their votes on an amendment to HR 2764 to overturn the Mexico City Policy instituted by President Reagan to prevent U.S. taxpayer dollars from funding overseas abortions.

“For the most part it’s the usual suspects who claim to be Catholic while their consistent pro-abortion votes amount to a betrayal of the Catholic faith. We expect treachery from them,” Fr. Euteneuer said. “But the great disappointment here is Robert Casey, Jr., whose late father courageously stood against the tide for life in his political party. It is disgusting to think that Casey Junior ran as a ‘pro-life’ candidate. He has betrayed those who voted for him on those grounds.”

“At a time when these same politicians bewail America’s standing in the world they vote to export death to nations that don’t want it, in violation of those nations’ religious traditions. They are the new ‘ugly Americans’ practicing imperialism at its worst,” Father Euteneuer said.

The gang of 16 includes: Robert Casey, Jr. (D-PA), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Ted Kennedy (D-MA), John Kerry (D-MA), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Susan Collins (R-ME), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Ken Salazar (D-CO), Tom Harkin (D-IA), Richard Durbin (D-IL), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Patty Murray (D-WA), Jack Reed (D-RI), Christopher Dodd (CT-D), Claire McCaskill (D-MO).

[Gay State Conservative]

My aunt,who recently died at the age of 94 was as traditional a Catholic as you'll find.Mass every day (until she became too frail),rosary beads....everything.Yet she voted RAT until the day she died.I once tried to explain to her,in detail,what the RAT Party had become.She listened...paused....and then said..."Yes,but Gay State Conservative,the democrats give me my Social Security".

At that moment,I knew it was hopeless.I never brought it up again.

[kellynla]

come on now...”informed” Catholic?

show me any practicing Catholic in America who doesn’t know about abortion....gezzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[Non-Sequitur]

No practicing Catholic can vote for Obama. PERIOD!

It didn't stop millions from voting for Kerry.

[kellynla]

“Must be tough to be a Catholic and a...........Liberal.
The word *insincere* comes to mind.”

the word “oxymoron” would be more accurate!

We have 10 Commandments...either obey them or go to Confession!

[mware]

Bob Casey Jr is not his father.

He has a rating of 42% with The Family Research Council.

Since Reid has not permitted any votes on life issues. Casey does not have to buck the system.

[syriacus]

Obama's manner of speaking is very self-reVerential.

He has said:

I think I have an ongoing conversation with God.
I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.

and

[Sin is being] out of alignment with my values.

[syriacus]

No practicing Catholic can vote for Obama. PERIOD!

Quite a number of pro-life lapsed Catholics can not vote for him, too.

[NEPA]

I understand. You're aunt sounds like my relatives though we're not Catholic.

They have been totally brainwashed into believing republicans will take away their SS. Plus republicans are greedy and mean.

What's a few (million) unborn babies when your Social Security check is on the line.

Somehow my mother escaped that mentality and was a die hard republican 'till the day she died.

[sweet_diane]

Can Senators Kennedy and Kerry still take Catholic communion?

[MortMan]

In other news, the sun may rise in the east today.

[kellynla]

“Can Senators Kennedy and Kerry still take Catholic communion?”

They “can” but like everyone else, I doubt that “if” they are in the state of mortal sin that the Body of Christ is present in the Holy Communion that they receive. That is JMO and I could be wrong. Maybe some of the other Catholics could shed some light on the issue.

[Antoninus]

Divide nothing. Obama is the biggest pro-abort to have won his party's nomination--ever. No true Catholic could ever vote for him.

[kellynla]

“It didn’t stop millions from voting for Kerry.”

Lets not mistake CINO’s with practicing Catholics.

You do know the difference...don’t you?

[HamiltonJay]

Exactly, it won’t divide Catholics at all.. No practicing Catholic that believes as the faith teaches that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, PERIOD, and ALL HUMAN LIFE IS A GIFT FROM GOD AND DESERVING OF RESPECT can support someone who is pro abortion. Particularly one that is so pro abortion that he believes its ok that when doctors botch an abortion and the child is born alive no medical treatment or even pain killers should be administered... which yes folks Fauxbama believes and has fought hard so that doctors can leave botched abortions born alive children to die alone in a waste basket and not be charged with criminal penalty.

This man is an abomination to dececency at every level, an affront to intellect, and a depraved human being... The Democrats have truly put up the weakest candidate of any major party in the history of this Nation.. but if you dare challenge him on anything, regardless of the facts, you are wrong? To quote an African American with far more talent and accomplishment than Fauxbama will ever have... “I don’t think so.. Homie don’t play that.”

[ethics]

Casey Jr. is supported by Bishop James Clifford Timlin of the Scranton Diocese. Does that mean that Bishop Timlin is Pro Choice?

[HamiltonJay]

Casey’s a stuffed shirt, just like Fauxbama, he’s ridden his daddy’s name and done nothing of any merrit or consequence of his own.. He’ll have no problem selling out his fathers vehement pro life stance at the feet of Fauxbama without a second thought.

[HamiltonJay]

Casey Jr. claims to be pro life.. because Pro Abortion is DOA in PA.. but in terms of actions, I can’t say Casey’s shown one way or another a strong conviction on the issue, such as his father did when the party blacklisted him from the convention in 92 simply because he was pro life.

Casey Jr. is just a stuffed shirt, riding his daddy’s name.. nothing more.. him and Fauxbama are peas in a pod as far as I’m concerned.

[Malacoda]

Bishop Timlin was a senile dotard when I went to Catholic school in the Diocese of Scranton...fifteen years ago.

[cpforlife.org]

This is the biggest load of fertilizer I’ve read in a while.

Bob Casey being “Pro-Life” and a dem pol at the national level is meaningless. His choice of party negates his position and illustrates the complete lack of PRIORITY he has for the cause. He’s a PLINO - Pro-Life in Name Only. A hypocrite.

B. Hussein Obama is fully committed to the abortion agenda with every fiber of his being and having Casey speak is a shyster con-man tactic.

Any Christian who falls for this gimmick is approaching hopeless.

You cannot be both Christian and pro-choice on abortion. The two are diametrically opposed—polar opposites. If you think you are both you are living a lie.

[rbmillerjr]

Oh, they will let Casey speak primetime. As long as he promises to only mention his abortion stance in one sentence. If he talked about his anti abortion stance for much longer those radicals would boo him out of the convention.

[Publius804]

Only a fool who is pro-life would vote for the empty suit with the big ears.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"The likely shift reflects concern among Democrats that they need to do more to regain the allegiance of Roman Catholic voters, who broke decisively for President Bush in 2004 and could be crucial to the outcome in a number of battleground states this year.

The Obama campaign is being close-mouthed about its convention plans and would not confirm whether Mr. Casey would be given a prime-time speaking slot. Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said that the call was Mr. Obama’s, but that a prominent speaking role for Mr. Casey would assist in the candidate’s efforts to woo Roman Catholic voters."

It's a hat trick. Bait and switch. If Casey is really pro-life why would he ever vote for Obama? For minimum wage? Healthcare? Global warming? Well, you know, even Judas got his 30 pieces of silver. They're reducing themselves to tokens and exploiting working-class voters. The promises are never delivered.

[ex-snook]

"Casey Jr. is supported by Bishop James Clifford Timlin of the Scranton Diocese. Does that mean that Bishop Timlin is Pro Choice?"

Republican Catholics seem more interested in life before birth. Democrat Catholics seem more interested in life after its birth. Pennsylvania Catholics elected Ridge and Casey - who stinketh the most?

[jmaroneps37]

This despicable bastard is way passed abortion, he's for killing miracle abortion surviving babies by leaving them alone on a stainless steel hospital table to slowly die of dehydration and starvation. He is a low life swine.

Catholics must keep telling the world about this monster. We have to keep telling everyone that the monster's wife traveled Illinois supporting this nazi like plan.

[phillyfanatic]

If Catholics and Prots actually believed their own spiritual ideologies, their own theology, they would not trust any Dem abortionist protector. Yet, they will zombie like vote for Dems because: Bush , Reagan are evil!!!

[kellynla]

I think you’re lumping practicing Catholics & practicing Protestants in with CINO’s & PINO’s...BIG difference.

[AliVeritas]

Behold the carrot:

‘Catholic problem’ dogs Obama and Democrats
Abortion foe may speak at convention
http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=27956

But I remember how he explained his position previously, I have talked to him about it; He’s not a martyr, he’s obstinate.

Memories...
I remember when Kmiec wrote the Slate piece... Ramesh smacked him and he had this response:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWE1ZGU0YWVkZmZmZGZiMGVkM2ZjNjE1NDM2MWZjYjY=

Deal W. Hudson: The Case Against Barack Obama
By Deal W. Hudson

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=28393

Top Ten Reasons Obama Voted Against the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/01/top-10-reasons.html

Links to comments on the floor

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/obama-links-to

Kmiec still didn’t get it:
EXCLUSIVE: Doug Kmiec on ‘The Politics of Apostasy’

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=27956

[WOSG]

All I would add to your very correct statement is that no informed practicing Catholic can vote for Obama.We must continue to inform people that Obama is the most anti-life candidate to ever run for president

Obama is indeed a pro-abortion extremist. He voted against the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act, which protected victims of botched abortions that were born infants. Obama was wanting the abortion mills to not have any compunction about letting such victims die. It is horrifying how extreme pro-aborts can be, and he signed up to be that extreme.

He is also anti-traditional families and voice opposition to the attempt to defend traditional marriage in California - he is for gay marriage.

He is also someone who has worn his Christianity on his sleeve, yet when you examine it closely, its Black Liberation Theology nonsense, the Rev "God d*** America" Wright's leftwing anti-American claptrap. Wrapping that garbage with the bible is insane.

Real Christians ought not get fooled.

[pgyanke]

Seems like a good place to repost some of my own work on the subject:

Forming the Consciences of Catholic Voters

[kellynla]

WOW! You’ve been busy. BIG SMILE

God Bless You!

And thank you for all your effort.

Semper Fi,
Kelly

[Salvation]

**Obama’s View on Abortion May Divide Catholics ( “May Divide?” )**

Obama’s views on abortion will unite Catholics.

[Salvation]

[Salvation]

Any Catholic who votes for Obama is basically excommunicating themselves.

1:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches 1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm

97%

2:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches 2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm

96%

3:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches 2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3), URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm

96%

4:	CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

[Salvation]

Obama’s View on Abortion May Divide Catholics ( "May Divide?" )

Obama loses 26 points among Catholics
Barack Obama's Wife Michelle to Join Hillary Clinton at Pro-Abortion Dinner
OPINION: Senator Obama and the Wall of the Womb
Barack Obama's Pledge to Overturn Every Pro-Life Abortion Law One Year Old
Obama Worse than Clintons on Abortion Says National Right to Life Leader Interview-SCOTUS Critical

Roman Catholics for Obama '08
OBAMA TO CATHOLICS: NO VOUCHERS
How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?
Obama’s director of Catholic Outreach ‘dodges’ opportunity to reach Catholics
Barack Obama Slams John McCain For Opposing Abortion, Activist Judges

Catholics and Obama
COMMENTARY: Quandry for Catholics At Election Time
The Latest Refinement (Obama on Abortion)
CNN Runs Biased News Story Covering Up Barack Obama’s Pro-Abortion Record
Jill Stanek: Obama's biggest lie about supporting infanticide
The Battle for Catholic Voters

New Report Indicates Voters Most Interested in Barack Obama’s Position on Abortion
Deal Hudson: Obama and Infanticide?
Ad asks Obama: ‘If fatherhood begins at conception, when does life begin?’
Embryonic stem-cell research immoral, unnecessary, bishops say
Catholics should not vote for Obama
Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]

More Catholics leaning towards Democrats, poll reports (really not Catholics)
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....
NARAL Catholics Line Up for Obama
Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time
State-Funded Embryo Research "Makes Taxpayers Complicit in Killing", say Bishops

McCain Meets Privately with Fr. Pavone - Says Constitutional Right to Life Applies to Unborn
Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after
Has Obama dissolved his Catholic advisory council?
Commentary: Faithful Citizenship and the Formed Conscience
Catholic League: Where's Obama's 'Catholic Advisory Council'? [Not to be found!]
Right-wing Christians beginning to lean left (Misleading headline)

Catholics Debate Obama Vote
US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]
Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?
DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election
EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question
Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers
McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)
Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

[pgyanke]

My pleasure... and my passion.