Posted on 04/11/2008 10:08:35 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
THIS LEGISLATON JUST PASSED IN ARIZONA--JUAN'S HOME STATE:
Fed up with the devastating effect of illegal immigration, Arizona has enacted the nation’s toughest laws to curb the problem and evidently its working. State legislators have passed laws barring illegal immigrants from receiving government services, posting bail for serious crimes and winning punitive damages in lawsuits. This year a new law makes it illegal for businesses to hire undocumented workers and those that do can be shut down.
The state legislator who sponsored the work bill, Representative Russell Pearce, says the law’s undeniably positive effects include smaller class sizes, shorter emergency room waits and an overall huge savings to taxpayers. The Republican congressman drafted the bill because studies revealed that illegal immigration cost Arizona taxpayers over $2 billion annually, not including the toll of crime and destruction.
It turns out that enough illegal immigrants have either fled the U.S. or been deported that officials in the Mexican state of Sonora, which shares an extensive border with Arizona, have complained that too many of their fellow countrymen have returned. They miss the remittances sent from the U.S. as well as smaller class sizes in local schools.
Mexican government officials knew Arizona’s tough employment verification law would become their worst nightmare, which explains why they tried blocking it. Earlier this year a delegation of nine legislators from Sonora toured Tucson and held a news conference to say that their beloved state cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools resulting from illegal Mexican workers returning home.
One baffled Mexican legislator, Leticia Amparano Gamez, asked in Spanish “how can they pass a law like this?” She went on to explain that Mexico is not prepared for the “tremendous problems” it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs. Another member of the Mexican delegation, Representative Florencio Diaz Armenta, asked “what do we do with the repatriated?”
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MEMO TO MEXICO: We could care less what you do with repatriates. They're your problem. Too bad you're not "prepared" to handle it---maybe if you people weren't so corrupt you'd be able to care for your poor instead of tossing them over the border to sponge off Americans.
“For all intents and purposes 95% of Mexicans who want to legitimately come to the US have no legal way of obtaining a visa, other than waiting indefinitely for a lottery. “
Hey, stoop beating around the bush and just say you favor totally open borders, with no restrictions on the entry of anyone who thinks they have a legitimate reason to come here and stay.
Otherwise, your statement above is true, which is why Mexicans should be forced to stay home and bring about the changes in their own nation that would result in more opportunity for all citizens, not just the moneyed oligarchs.
And, 95% of Mexicans (or more) SHOULD NOT have any legal way to come to the US and stay. It’s called being a sovereign nation with laws and borders. Is that a foreign concept to you?
I have no idea either, but if I had to guess, I would figure that some of McCain's friends are making $ because of it, and consequently, he is too. That's how low my opinion of McCain has been for a long, long time.
... and if that had been what I'd stated, you'd actually have a point, here. Unfortunately -- threaded message board conversations being what they are -- my original statement, already archived for posterity, is, was, and remains:
"Not wanting another 50mil+ illegals forcibly rammed down our collective gullet"
You know perfectly well what's being stated here, FRiend; and whey-faced disingenuousness doesn't even remotely suit a FReeper of your years and stature. Argue the points on their merits, or else simply cede them graciously, for heaven's sake.
Again: "Not wanting another 50mil+ illegals forcibly rammed down our collective gullet" is not even remotely equivalent to "deport every illegal immigrant already in this country." Straw man argument.
The amount of legal visas available is tiny and set by a 40 year old formula.
Not even remotely enough reason to surrender our borders -- and, hence, both our sovereignty AND our national security (isn't Juan supposedly running as the "defense-savvy candidate, this year?) -- obviously.
Here's a wacky, way-out solution: why not simply lobby -- openly and fairly -- for an increased/adjusted formula, re: LEGAL immigration... rather than simply transforming the entire nation into a slightly swankier suburban bedroom community of Mexico proper, instead. Hmmmm?
N-i-c-e work. Now here's what I'm suggesting. We gotta work fast. The Reconquista termites are gnawing on the US government to hand back the SW to Mehico.
FACE FACTS Hernandez is McCain's Reconquista flunky. (And Hillary Clinton's campaign co-chair Dolores Huerta, in a speech given two weeks ago, railed, "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us." Huerta gloated that immigration enforcement is moot because the Reconquista is won. "It's really too late," Huerta said. "If 47 million [Latinos] have one baby each...it's already won.")
NOW IS THE TIME It's time to declare these lawless invaders and their supporters on American soil (1) persona non grata, and, (2) enemies of state. Their words and actions clearly are intended to undermine the US government and to endanger the safety and security of US citizens.
SUGGESTED LEGISLATION Crimes against the United States of America's sovereignty will be prosecuted.
Any person who pledges loyalty to a foreign country and by their words and actions are found to be colluding with foreign entities to undermine the US government are declared "persona non grata"........ and are hereby expelled.
Congress will declare invaders squatting on US lands, sending money out of the US to prop up foreign governments to be enemies of state.
Makes sense. You most likely are right.
“How about the ones who already have businesses and property?”
If they are operating a *legal* business (with a business licence and paying taxes), they’re lying to multiple layers of gov.
If they bought property with false documentation, the contract isn’t valid and it’s not really theirs.
You really need to think before you post.
Exactly.
We don't need to drive them out, the undesirable ones will mostly leave on their own. We have not properly motivated them to leave. We need to go after their support system (sanctuary cities) and sympathizers (like the LA Mayor) that are American Citizens in a manor that will get the attention of not only the illegals but the MSM. Here is a modest beginning...
* No Amnesty: Amnesty undermines U.S. law and policy, rewards bad behavior, and is unfair to the millions of immigrants who follow the law and are awaiting legal entry into the United States.
* Enforce Existing Federal Laws: Enforce the laws Congress has already enacted to prevent illegal aliens from unlawfully benefiting from their presence in the country including:
A. End Sanctuary Cities by cutting off discretionary federal grant funds as appropriate to any community that, by law, ordinance, executive order, or other formal policy directs its public officials not to comply with the provisions of 8 USC 1373 and 8 USC 1644, which prohibit any state or local government from restricting in any way communications with the Department of Homeland Security “regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of an alien in the United States.”
B. Deny discretionary Federal education grants as appropriate to public universities that violate federal law by offering in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens without also offering identical benefits to United States citizens, regardless of whether or not they live in the state, as required by 8 USC 1623.
C. Deny discretionary Federal grants as appropriate to states and local governments that violate federal law by offering public benefits to illegal aliens, as prohibited by 8 USC 1621(a).
* Increased Border Security: Doubling Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents handling interior enforcement, increasing the Border Patrol to at least 25,000 agents, and increasing detention space to incarcerate illegal aliens we arrest rather than letting them go with a promise to show up later for legal proceedings against them.
* Attrition through Enforcement: Reduce the number of illegal aliens through increased enforcement against unauthorized alien workers and their employers. Without illegal employment opportunities available, fewer illegal aliens will attempt to enter the country, and many of those illegally in the country now likely will return home. This course of action offers a reasonable alternative to the false choices currently proposed to deal with the 20 - 30 million or more aliens already in the U.S. illegally: either arrest and deport them all, or give them all amnesty.
Because Jim will righteously come down like the wrath of Almighty God upon anyone so openly stating (thank goodness!):
A pity that doesn't apply to some of our elected officials. There are plenty of them who deserve to be "men/women without a country" since they are traitors to their own. Or maybe Mexico or someplace would take them.
In common English, if I told someone: "Hey, I've got an extra Knicks ticket if you want to buy it!" and he responded: "No thanks. I don't want to spend another 50 plus bucks watching them lose." I would anturally assume that they had spent more than 50 dollars on a previous outing.
why not simply lobby -- openly and fairly -- for an increased/adjusted formula
In itself, an excellent idea. However, what about the several million already here who have actually kept their heads down , worked hard and not caused any further trouble.
Do we expel them, or do we come up with some way of dealing with them?
'Report on Sept. 6 strike to show Saddam transferred WMDs to Syria'Perhaps your computer is just tired of you keeping the Caps Lock on and is screwing with you.
jpost.com ^ | 4/8/08 | jpost.com staff
Posted on 04/08/2008 10:04:38 AM PDT by Typical_Whitey
Not to do it would only send a terrible message - if you break our laws, not only will you get ahead of those who want to come here legally, but special perks awaits you. How will we teach our children that laws should be obeyes and there are consequences if you do not?
Anything "personal" you may (or may not) be sensing, here, is solely your own creation and responsibility. Keep the bloody abomination in your own yard, if you'd be so very kind, and away from my lawn. ;)
In common English, if I told someone: "Hey, I've got an extra Knicks ticket if you want to buy it!" and he responded: "No thanks. I don't want to spend another 50 plus bucks watching them lose." I would anturally assume that they had spent more than 50 dollars on a previous outing.
*sigh*
Again: "Not wanting another 50mil+ MORE illegals forcibly rammed down our collective gullet" is not even remotely equivalent to "deport every illegal immigrant already in this country." Straw man argument.
There. Now you no longer have even the frayed fig leaf of an excuse remaining for misunderstanding what was previously stated, and can/will soldier on from here without further assistance on my part.
However, what about the several million already here who have actually kept their heads down , worked hard and not caused any further trouble.
This is a decidedly odd response to my own previous:
Not even remotely enough reason to surrender our borders -- and, hence, both our sovereignty AND our national security (isn't Juan supposedly running as the "defense-savvy" candidate, this year?) -- obviously.
Let's finish what's already on our plate, first, before going back to the buffet for seconds. Are you ceding the previous point, then...?
What I favor is a system in which able-bodied individuals with no criminal record and with job offers are given temporary residence visas that are immediately revocable at discretion.
And, 95% of Mexicans (or more) SHOULD NOT have any legal way to come to the US and stay. It’s called being a sovereign nation with laws and borders.
You seem to have mistaken the sovereignty of a free nation for the sovereignty of a police state.
Now this is simply drifting off into absolute absurdity, wideawake. Neither Mexico nor Canada (simply to take the two most obvious and geographically pertinent examples) allow U.S. citizens to enter said nations at will -- flagrantly flaunting their own legally established immigration procedures, mind -- and then to stay, indefinitely, in direct violation of their sovereign laws. Plainly, neither of these are [*kaff*kaff*] "police states"; neither then, demonstrably, is the U.S., in doing precisely the same.
In all candor, FRiend -- no needling or sarcasm intended (honest) -- I'd recommend stepping back from the keyboard for, say, half an hour or so, and re-thinking this particular line of argument. It's a non-starter. ;)
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