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Guns in the cockpit
Washington Times ^ | January 3, 2008 | Tracy Price

Posted on 01/03/2008 8:27:28 AM PST by 3AngelaD

In a recent interview, Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida stated: "The need for guns in the cockpit is just nearly not [sic] as acute as it once was. There are all kind [sic] of screening systems, there is now the reinforced cockpit door, there are air marshals, we now have a lots of checks and balances."...

Arming pilots is not a new idea....airline pilots flew armed in large numbers from the dawn of commercial aviation to 1987 with no record of incident. When the federal government disarmed pilots in 1987, many predicted cockpit takeover attempts — including the late Captain Victor Saracini, who, in horrible irony, was the captain of United flight 175 on September 11, 2001 when his Boeing 767 was hijacked and crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center. It was the disarming of pilots in 1987 that inevitably led to the September 11 cockpit takeovers....

Terrorists know what security experts have long known: There is no such thing as an impenetrable door....

The Federal Air Marshals Service is an important layer of security, but the agency has never been able to cover more than a fraction of domestic flights....

All armed pilots are trained and deputized federal law enforcement officers....

Mr. Nelson tells us that we don't need armed pilots because airport security screening now provides a meaningful layer of protection. Anyone who has been through passenger screening in recent years might wonder what planet the senator is talking about... Some have argued, "The threat we face is now is explosives smuggled on airliners and armed pilots can't stop a bomb." True ...But if terrorist groups are now looking toward explosives as a weapon of choice, is this not evidence that the armed pilot program is working? ...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; armedpilots; banglist; terror

1 posted on 01/03/2008 8:27:30 AM PST by 3AngelaD
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To: 3AngelaD
But if terrorist groups are now looking toward explosives as a weapon of choice, is this not evidence that the armed pilot program is working?

What armed pilot program?? How many pilots are now armed?

...airline pilots flew armed in large numbers from the dawn of commercial aviation to 1987 with no record of incident.

So who was the idiot that stopped a successful process? Why wouldn't we want to continue with what was a completely successful process?

2 posted on 01/03/2008 8:37:54 AM PST by logic (Support Duncan Hunter for the 2008 GOP presidential nominee. He is THE conservative candidate!!)
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To: 3AngelaD
All armed pilots are trained and deputized federal law enforcement officers...

If I get arrested by a pilot, is there a 2/3 chance my trip to jail will be delayed?

3 posted on 01/03/2008 8:48:59 AM PST by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: logic
See: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0412c.asp

Gun Nuts at 30,000 Feet? by James Bovard, Posted March 7, 2005

After the pervasive failure of airport security on 9/11, the Air Line Pilots Association sought federal permission for pilots to carry handguns to defeat hijackers...

The Bush administration rejected the request, preferring instead to rely on jet fighters to shoot down hijacked civilian planes. U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta declared on March 4, 2002, “I don’t feel we should have lethal weapons in the cockpit” — as if airplanes themselves were not among the most deadly lethal weapons.

Congress eventually trumped the administration, passing a law in September 2002 to create a program to train pilots to use firearms to defend their planes. (The Transportation Security Administration — TSA — effectively buried the program with red tape, ensuring that only 48 pilots would be permitted to carry guns in early 2003.) ......

4 posted on 01/03/2008 8:49:06 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: 3AngelaD
When the federal government disarmed pilots in 1987, many predicted cockpit takeover attempts

very misleading.

part of hijacking procedures was to appease the hijacker.

Back in 2001, According to FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto:
"FAA regulations permitted pilots to carry firearms in the cockpit provided they completed an FAA-approved training program and were trained properly by the airlines,"That was never put into effect because no requests for those training programs were ever made. …" "

unfortunately, in July of 2001, the FAA rescinded that regulation...so the 911 terroists may have well known that the pilots were not armed.
5 posted on 01/03/2008 8:54:28 AM PST by stylin19a
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To: 3AngelaD
With armed guards and all of the other stuff to protect the passengers, it’s still a warm cozy feeling to have the guys up front armed.
6 posted on 01/03/2008 9:11:50 AM PST by ANGGAPO (LayteGulfBeachClub)
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To: 3AngelaD
See: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0412c.asp

Yes, extremely encouraging!!! </sarcasm>

7 posted on 01/03/2008 9:14:37 AM PST by logic (Support Duncan Hunter for the 2008 GOP presidential nominee. He is THE conservative candidate!!)
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To: ANGGAPO

That particular warm, cozy feeling works for me. I want those pilots armed to the teeth. I have never felt so safe, warm and cozy as the day I flew into DC sitting next to a big, strapping, fit, apparently armed guy, ex-military, who I am convinced was an air marshall.


8 posted on 01/03/2008 9:16:05 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: logic

Mineta is an idiot. I cannot believe that, of all people in this country, Bush put Mr. Politically Correct in charge of airline safety. We are still paying the price for his folly.


9 posted on 01/03/2008 9:17:29 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: domenad
If you’ve paid for a first-class ticket you can choose between being late and having the jail lose your luggage. Airlines are always looking for that extra effort to make passengers choose them!
10 posted on 01/03/2008 9:17:52 AM PST by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
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To: 3AngelaD

It’s a lot cheaper to train and equip pilots than to hire/train/equip a bunch of air marshals.


11 posted on 01/03/2008 9:51:11 AM PST by aviator (Armored Pest Control)
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To: aviator
Plus the fact that there are pilots on every flight- out of necessity. There aren't enough air marshalls to have them on every flight.

But then, again, I'm using logic in an Alice-in-Wonderland world.

12 posted on 01/03/2008 2:37:31 PM PST by hadit2here ("Most men would rather die than think. Many do." - Bertrand Russell)
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To: ANGGAPO

the more armed on board with a mission and reason to deter the better. The more uncertain hijackers are as to who and how many are armed the better.


13 posted on 01/03/2008 2:50:20 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them, or they like us?)
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To: 3AngelaD

Arm the pilots and the passengers who choose to carry a concealed weapon.


14 posted on 01/04/2008 10:46:51 AM PST by Southern Partisan ("Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." ----R. E. Lee)
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To: 3AngelaD; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; El Gato; Squantos
Bump & a BANG! As September 11, 2001 recedes into a faded memory, the pols spout more and more nonsense.
15 posted on 01/04/2008 10:49:18 AM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: 3AngelaD

—yeah—that was an example of “reaching out” in a spirit of bi-partisan cooperation-—(sarc)—


16 posted on 01/04/2008 11:16:25 AM PST by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: 3AngelaD

I have to ask the dunderheads in D.C. this one thing...

What are they afraid of???

The fact that an armed pilot might fly off the handle, get up exit the flight deck, draw his firearm and start shooting passengers and crew...

Or just take control of the plane they are flyng and simply crash it...

It certainly worked for those guys on Sept 11th...

But hey, I am just stating the obvious...

I don’t know a damn thing about any of this.../sarc


17 posted on 01/04/2008 1:04:00 PM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: 3AngelaD

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/23/AR2007012301529.html

There are more legally armed pilots in cockpits than there are air marshalls flying.


18 posted on 01/04/2008 2:23:44 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: 3AngelaD

There’s no shortage of big, fit, ex-military guys flying into DC these days. I’ve frequently seen much the same on flights into Reagan.


19 posted on 01/04/2008 11:11:35 PM PST by PeterFinn (A muslim in the White House would be an Obamination.)
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To: 3AngelaD
The Bush administration rejected the request, preferring instead to rely on jet fighters to shoot down hijacked civilian planes.

Hahahahaha, holy crap. Nice one, W...
20 posted on 01/04/2008 11:14:05 PM PST by Zeon Cowboy (Pardon Ramos and Compean NOW! // Duncan Hunter '08)
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