Posted on 08/26/2007 4:26:37 PM PDT by kiriath_jearim
Most people assume that if you are a leftist, or a progressive, or just a plain old liberal you must be anti-gun. (Most people probably don't make this assumption about anarchists quite so quickly). Well, I'm not...anti-gun that is (Although for me personally the fact that I have a felony conviction on the old record makes the whole thing problematic). I'm not sure we need everyone armed with automatic weapons, but some guns, in my mind, are not a bad idea. I used to say "When guns are outlawed, only cops will have guns." The truth is cops and criminals and right wing nuts will have guns, the rest of America will be sitting behind locked doors hoping no knocks come in the night.
LEFT WING WACKOS FOR GUNS
Most people assume that if you are a leftist, or a progressive, or just a plain old liberal you must be anti-gun. (Most people probably don't make this assumption about anarchists quite so quickly).
Well, I'm not...anti-gun that is (Although for me personally the fact that I have a felony conviction on the old record makes the whole thing problematic). I'm not sure we need everyone armed with automatic weapons, but some guns, in my mind, are not a bad idea. I used to say "When guns are outlawed, only cops will have guns." The truth is cops and criminals and right wing nuts will have guns, the rest of America will be sitting behind locked doors hoping no knocks come in the night.
The liberal left and the pacifist left make light of the slogan "guns don't kill people, people do." Well, duh, it's true. I mean you might say some people with guns kill people. At least in this country. Anyway, come on folks, how do you propose to grab all the guns already out there anyway. Any government that can pull that off is a government that scares the hell out of yours truly.
Polls make it pretty clear that ordinary Americans are not the ones clamoring for strict gun control. It comes from those layers of society include academics, Hollywood stars, Washington insiders and multibillion-dollar media conglomerates. I don't belong to any of those groups.
And does anyone doubt that rich people will always be able to buy guns (or hire armed security)--regardless of the law. Laws, in general, don't really apply to the rich.
Then there is the unfortunate fact (for gun control advocates of the liberal persuasion) that compelling historical evidence shows racism underlies gun control laws in this country. On March 4, 1998, the Third District Court of Appeals in California overturned crucial sections of the State of California's ban on so-called assault weapons.Although the Court rules against the ban on the basis of the vague language of the law, the Court also pointed out:
"Early gun control laws were directed at oppressed peoples, such as slaves and freedmen, and the politically powerless, such as immigrants and religious minorities.... California followed this pattern shortly after statehood by criminalizing the gift or sale of any gun to 'any Indian.'... Such laws presume the proscribed class is likely to engage in crime..."
I won't put you to sleep with any more about the the old days. Look it up if you want. But even in more recent times the truth is out there. Old Ronald Reagan, for example, pushed gun control laws when he was governor of the late great state of California because he was afraid of some uppity Negroes roaming his state capital who called themselves the Black Panthers. They carried firearms. Ron, no liberal by the way, was having none of that. The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 followed on the heels of the rioting that broke out after the death of Martin Luther King (I know shot with a rifle). But which do you think scared the establishment that passed the bill more, one man shooting Dr. King or armed blacks battling authorities in cities across the land.
But enough of that.
Let's think for a minute about those days just after Hurricane Katrina hit (hell, take a look see at New Orleans today). Would you have wanted to be an unarmed citizen or an armed one. I mean really.
One little article from I don't know where that I ran across stated:
“Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here,” reports the New York Times. “No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. ‘Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons,’ he said.”
Of course, the trashing of the Second Amendment is restricted to poor people. Rich people will be allowed to hire armed guards. Nixing the Second Amendment “apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property. The guards, employees of private security companies like Blackwater, openly carry M-16’s and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons.”
And guns surprisingly are in some ways about equality. A gun can help a little old lady defend herself against some hulk of a man. Women and children are now the major targets of predators in our society. Government is not protecting them very well. Many women who work in cities know this and take courses in self-defense. A gun may be the only realistic self-defense against the sort of criminals and wackos who place no value on your life...or mine (and I'm a man).
None of this is to say that I have problems with things like background checks (No one has to have a gun today, they can wait a bit), curtailing automatic weapons (which no one really needs) and the like. No one should have a gun who has not been trained. No, I don't have any trouble with those kinds of laws and regulations.
So come on dudes and dudettes of the left, let's cast off our image as the people who just don't get it. Let's admit you don't have to be a right wing nut job or even a hunter to believe that outlawing guns is a big mistake.
Not only is that the right thing to do, it'll win us some friends as well who will realize that even a crazy left wing pinko commie can have some common sense.
The following is from Pro-Gun Progressive Web Site.
About Pro-Gun Progressive
Pro-gun progressives? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? How can you be a liberal and support the Second Amendment? Aren’t guns for crazy rednecks, gang bangers, one-world fearing militia members, and violent people?
Hardly! The purpose of this site is straightforward: to end of the myth of the liberal gun-hater, as well as other myths about gun ownership. The Democratic Party and the progressive movement, no doubt, bear the brunt of the blame for the current state of affairs for gun owners in the United States. Someone somewhere needs to start motivating Dems and liberals to collectively gut-check and recognize that the default, knee-jerk anti-gun stance is both a political loser and a morally bankrupt position. My motivation is to create a resource for progressives, liberals, Democrats, moderates, and others who share a few core responses to the discussion on firearms in America today.
1) There are those who are largely single issue voters on the gun rights issue who do not like voting Republican for a variety of reasons, but find themselves swinging right for fear of gun rights being retracted by Democrats on the wrong side of the issue. Now is the time for those people to have a resource to discuss this dilemma. Many moderate voters frankly have little affinity for the regressive positions today’s Neocon-dominated GOP takes on social issues, but have no choice but to pick the lesser of two evils and vote for the Republicans because they (rightly so) think the Dems are not to be trusted with something as important as the natural right to self-defense.
2) Some Progressives do not feel that anything inherent in their liberalism precludes self-defense. Social liberalism is fundamentally about bearing an open mind and recognizing that what works for one person might not work for another, and thus every American needs to be free to make choices about their personal behavior. Few choices are as intimate, as personal, and as vital as choosing to protect oneself and loved ones from violent attack. A truly free and liberal society lets citizens make these sorts of choices for themselves and encourages citizens to participate in their own defense. Progressives are on the right side of so many important social issues in this regard-the freedom to choose one’s mate, the freedom to chose one’s religion, the freedom to chose and express one’s political beliefs, the freedom to make choices about reproductive health-and should be on the right side of this issue as well.
This website is dedicated to providing the pro-gun progressive with a resource for answering those tough, nagging questions we get from our other progressive friends who question why we would want to own guns. It is dedicated to combating the myth that Democrats and liberals are permanently and forever on the wrong side of this issue. It is dedicated to helping them find the strength to admit the missteps of the past, and develop the intestinal fortitude to deny the reactionary right-wing the sole dominance on this crucial issue-and if there is one issue where the wingnuts are kicking our teeth in, it is that they are doing a good job convincing average citizens that they are more concerned with their safety and security. Most progressives and liberals know this to be, in point of fact, quite far from the truth; however, collectively being on the wrong side of the gun issue is the number one thing we do to help the GOP keep winning votes with that spurious argument. Time for that to stop. Time for the pro-gun progressives to make their voices heard. Time for people to recognize that the protection of one’s home and one’s life is not only a concern to radical right wing Republicans. Time for us to recognize that the right to self-defense is an inherent right that all human beings should enjoy.
—this guy apparently is smarter than he would appear to be-—
This jackass sounds too dangerous to carry a gun. Which, I guess, is why he has a felony record.
Uh, AMEN!!,...I think. Maybe the lockstep has been broken. Next, the blinders may fall away.
Wow. Even when lefties try to pretend like they get it they still can't help but show their tyrannical tendencies. It's ok to have a gun, if it's the type of gun the writer feels is acceptable. And who the hell is this guy to say exactly WHEN someone might be in need of a firearm? Wonderful
Then there is Ben Ezra on DU, a one man RKBA machine who knows his stuff and deserves admiration for making thousands of posts trying to get across the true meaning of the 2nd, whatever his other views he is 100% on target.
An unfortunate fact is that gun control really got going here in California under Ronald Reagan:-(
Ted Nugent he ain't.
The Gipper pushing gun control? I’ll have to check up on that one.
There have always been pro-gun left wingers. They just became a little more noticeable when some of them began spewing the “Bush-Hitler” BS. And no, we never heard a peep out of them when Slick Willie roasted the Branch Davidians.
Conclusion: Gun rights for many leftists still means, “guns for me -none for you.” Which is why they will never have any problem voting for a Clinton, a Kennedy, a Feinstein, etc.
*I* agree with you, and would unhesitatingly like to see the 1934 act repealed. But the *MOST* we can hope for is to preserve the few rights we have left and maybe, just maybe get the right to carry enshrined by SCOTUS. we’re not going to find any true gun rights candidate as we understand it. The writer gets it better than most Republicans, sad to say. Background checks and restriction to semi-auto is just going to be a fact of life until the next revolution I fear; not a defeatist but a realist; or at least that’s what I consider myself. Don’t forget that the Bradys are Republicans:-(
I was talking with a liberal friend about this the other day. If I already own a gun, complete with background check, why should I have to wait three days to complete the purchase of another? Isn't the whole idea of a "cooling off" period to keep someone from having a gun to begin with in the heat of the moment?
Even my liberal friend agreed that after your first it was pretty stupid to continue them.
Funny thing is, even cops without CCW have to wait three days.
Not even a liberal is immune from random attacks of fundamental reason, althoughn I hear the DNC is close to perfecting a vaccine.
“It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, ‘prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one’s person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street.’ The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.
“Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. ‘I support the Brady Bill,’ he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, ‘and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay.’”
http://keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2955
Ben Ezra Has got his stuff together defending 2A. His problem is he blames all gun control on Republicans!
I've often been amused by the conviction on the part of the left that it is an oppressive government that is ultimately to be feared, which is precisely the conviction of their counterparts on the right. What if they're both correct? Who is left and right now? Just a thought.
Defining things in linear, ‘left’ and ‘right’ manner is a part of the problem.
As I mentioned to a liberal co worker once “What if Matthew Shepard had been carrying? There’d be two dead pieces of trans and one young gay man with a good story to tell his friends”. I enjoyed watching the synapses fry.
There are lots of Democrats who sincerely believe in gun rights (and other issues like enforcing immigration laws), then go out and vote for leftie politicians who consistently vote to take them away. Just read a gun thread on DU sometime and you’ll see lots of posts from them. I know some people like this, and ask them why they do, and they will say something like the Religious Right wants to set up a theocratic government, global warming is going to destroy the planet, or some other hysterical nonsense. It’s amazing.
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