Posted on 06/25/2007 6:45:11 AM PDT by drzz
In Memoriam: Custer's Last Stand, June 25, 1876
Private William Slaper : «Each man had secreted himself behind a slain horse. »
Lieutenant Charles DeRudio: “The horses were laying as if to suggest a barricade.”
Lieutenant Luther Hare: “The evidence on the Custer field indicated very hard fighting.”
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Reno court of Inquiry: “In regard to the severity of the fighting on General Custer’s battlefield, did you see any evidences that there was hard fighting there, or the contrary?
Lieutenant Godfrey: “I think there must have been a very hard fighting.
Reno court of Inquiry: “You think there was a hard struggle?”
Lieutenant Godfrey: Undoubtedly, there was a very hard struggle.”
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Lieutenant Edgerly: “I believe Custer fought very desperately.”
Lieutenant Edward McClernand, of Terry’s column: “Horse remains in a 30-foot diameter circle not badly done, evidently used as breastworks.”
Lieutenant Edward McClernand, of Terry’s column: “(The Custer Hill stand) showed more care taken in deploying and placing men than was shown in any other part of the entire field – including, of course, Reno’s several positions.”
Thunder Hawk’s wife: “It was quite a fight” (on Custer Hill)
Wooden Leg could see “that all the soldiers were killed except for a band that remained hidden behind their dead horses.”
Flying By: “(the stand) was made in the place where Custer would be killed, down at the end of the long ridge.”
Flying Hawk: “Custer made a stand on his hill.”
Gall: Gall neared the end of the ridge where the last soldiers were making a stand. “They were fighting good” he said.
Lights: he could see the soldiers who had fled the Keogh fight joining those making the stand on the hill.
Two Eagles: The most stubborn stand the soldiers made was on Custer Hill. From his position a short way north and west of that point, Two Eagles noticed the hilltop was very level and the soldiers took the spot to continue their defense. (…) “They were killed on top of the ridge” Two Eagles declared.
Red Hawk: The bluecoats were “falling back steadily to Custer Hill where another stand was made”, said Red Hawk. “Here the soldiers made a desperate fight.”
Two Moon: (…) Two Moon turned back to watch the fight. (…) The “grey bunch" was still fighting.
Standing Bear: Moving north along the ridge to where he could see better, Standing Bear noticed dismounted soldiers holding their horses by the bridles. “They were ready for us”, he said, and they began to shoot, “the bullets were just raining”. (…) Bear Horn rode up too close (to the last stand) and was himself shot down.
Iron Hawk: On Last Stand Hill, Iron Hawk saw about twenty men on horseback and about thirty men on foot. “The Indians pressed and crowded right in and around them on Custer Hill” But the soldiers weren’t ready to die. Said Iron Hawk,“We stood there a long time.”
Big Beaver: Big Beaver crawled back down the coulee to put a bit more distance between himself and the deadly soldiers bullets. (…) The Indians were rushing toward the hill where the soldiers were making their desperate fight.
http://www.custerwest.org
Yes, but the Indians won the big one!
“If Custer had had his full regiment”
The same could be said for Chelmsford at Isandalwhana (sp?). Three columns in rough country and failure to adhere to his own, written directives cost many a British soldier his life.
Again, I don’t know much about Custer and this battle, except in general terms, but, it seems to me part of a pattern of behavior common to a certain type of soldier; the hard-charging, flamboyant, self-possesed type typically leads his men into disaster through his own hubris, and more often than not, underestimating his enemy. This seems to be a common thread when discussing figures like Custer and Patton, for example.
Still, I think I’ll shall read a bit more, and appropos of nothing at all, I always think “big-headed jerk” whenever I hear the name Custer for some reason.
You cannot hold Custer responsible for a disaster that was caused by disobedience of Custer’s orders by Benteen and Reno!
Custer gave his orders, and they weren’t obeyed. Betrayal.
The Washita “massacre” is pure political correctness. Nothing happened that way.
Washita was a battale and the Cheyennes got what they deserved after destroying Kansas and Texas during a whole year.
Watch the video “The battle of the Washita” on http://www.custerwest.org
Black Kettle wasn’t surrendering, he was trying to escape punishment by presenting himself as a peaceful one. Usual Indian tactics: murdering pioneers, and then claiming that they were peaceful with tears in their eyes.
That time, it failed. Custer got Black Kettle and Historian Jerome Greene, of the National Park Service, proved that the 7th cavalry soldiers “took measures to prevent the killing of women and children” (Washita, University of Oklahoma Press, page 189). Custer himself gave orders to prevent civilian casualties.
He went to the well once too often. And, he divided his force, had subordinates whom he mistreated and still expected to be loyal to him.
Custer was a fool, and good men died for his foolishness.
the Spencer did have an accuracy and distance advantage over the winchester of about 3/1 but the winchester held 15 rounds.
thee Spencer’s also jammed with the copper ammunition.
the biggest factor was Custer, Disobeyed his orders to basically a re con mission, not engage the enemy.
FYI one of grants chief complaints about him was that he had more horsees shot from under him & more men killed than any one else in the civil war.
Custer’s best press agent after his death was his wife, Libby,with out her much less myth and more fact would be availible.
Custer rushed the fight because he didn’t want the main force, commanded by General Miles, I believe, to get any of the glory. Remember, Custer was a Lieutenant Colonel, having been a brevet General from the Civil War. He was trying to get those stars back.
You are completely correct. The Commander is responsible for everything his men do or fail to do!
“Custer was “famous” for attacking undefended villages”
Pure Indian b###
The bad bad whites attacking the “Good Savage”. Ridiculous.
It’s General Terry, and Custer never rushed. But it seems that your only concern is to be the troll of this thread.
“the biggest factor was Custer, Disobeyed his orders to basically a re con mission, not engage the enemy.”
Do you know Custer’s orders ? Read them. Custer never disobeyed anything and never had the mission to recon anything.
It’s a myth.
“The Commander is responsible for everything his men do or fail to do!”
Only a hippie can believe that.
Our family is able to travel quite a bit - both in the US and overseas. We have many friends & acquaintances who have also traveled to many exotic locations around the world.
Without fail, the trip that single most elicits uuhs & oohs is not Europe, is not Hawaii, is not S America or Asia, it isn't any of those; it's doing a cross-country US roadtrip.
With money, you can fly anywhere, take a cab, and stay in a nice hotel. But there's something about getting in a car and driving yourself across the vast Western plains, through the Appalachians and on to the East coast, with a limited itinerary and an itch to see our country.
Ah, don't let the facts stand in the way of your conclusions eh? I think you've drank too much of the PC kool-aid. When Islamic nut-jobs slammed 3/4 planes into buildings/ground slaughtering some 3990 civilians, would you consider that a 'battle'?
Washita was not a battle in any sense of the word.
US forces had congregated the Cheyenne/Arapaho in that area, Black Kettle did attempt to surrender only to be rebuffed, and Custer's men did attack Washita at dawn, firing first into the village. Custer was simply following Sheridan's orders to exterminate the 'savages' (post Darwinian justification) and continue the ruling party's quest for a lily-white West.
Had Custer's attack succeeded, he would have gotten 90% of the credit.
You seem to think that he should bear none of the responsibility for it failing.
These two positions are not congruent.
In a move across country as newlyweds my wife and I stopped at the Little Big Horn. The gates were closed so we walked back to the car. After hemming and hawing for quite a bit we hopped the fence - figuring we might never get back.
After a brief look at the monument and markers, with the sun going down and all alone (just like you!) we climbed back over the fence and left.
At the bottom of the hill a truck came up and blocked our path. It was the security guard (Indian). The park service guy living on the site had called us in. After the guard told us to wait and he went to make sure there was no damage he came back and wrote us a ticket - $50 each I think.
I told him our story and he said he would have done the same thing! And if the head park guy hadn’t called us in he would have let us have a warning.
And of course we’ve been back there three times now with our kids!
Watch the video here: http://custer.over-blog.com/categorie-10018053.html
There wasn’t any massacre at Washita. It’s pure pro-Indian revisionism. Everytime they are defeated, they said that they were massacred by the bad bad whites.
Orders have to be obeyed. Custer was in charge of his troops as long as they obeyed him.
If a betrayal happens, one cannot accuse Custer of having failed. The first military doctrine - order - wasn’t respected at LBH.
As for being "the Troll of this thread", apparently anyone who fails to bow down to you is by definition a Troll. You sound like a member of the WPPA.
You just shot any credibility you ever had out of the saddle!
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