Posted on 06/25/2007 6:45:11 AM PDT by drzz
Chancellorsville, Brice’s Crossroads.
The classic underestimation of the enemy came years earlier about 100 miles south of Little Big Horn. Lt. Col. William Fetterman, upset with the Indians' hit and run tactics, said, "Give me 80 good men and I'll ride through the whole Sioux nation." Ironically, a few months later, Fetterman and 80 men were decoyed by some Dakota warriors (led by Crazy Horse) into an ambush. There were no survivors among the soldiers. This was the probably the defining battle in Red Cloud's War, the only war that the Indians won (at least temporarily).
The massacre site is just off I-90, north of Sheridan, Wyoming. The massacre site and nearby Fort Phil Kearney are now a historical site. If you are passing through, it's worth a stop.
MR. CUSTER
(Fred Darian / Al DeLory / Joseph Van Winkle)
Larry Verne - 1960
Charlie Drake - 1960
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/m/mrcuster.shtml
******
As recorded by LARRY VERNE:
((Shrieks and `Red Indian sounds’ in background)
(That famous day in history)
(The men of the 7th Cavalry went riding on)
(And from the rear a voice was heard)
(A brave young man with a trembling word rang loud and clear)
What am I doin’ here?
Please Mr. Custer, I don’t wanna go
Hey, Mr. Custer, please don’t make me go
I had a dream last night about the comin’ fight
Somebody yelled “Attack!”
And there I stood with a arrow in my back.
Please Mr. Custer, I don’t wanna go
(Forward, HO-O-O-O-O!) Oooohhhh
SPOKEN:
Look at them bushes out there, they’re movin’
And there’s a injun behind every one
Hey, Mr. Custer, you mind if I be excused the rest of the afternoon?
HEY CHARLIE, DUCK YER HEAD!!
(Sound of arrow whizzing by)
Hmm, you’re a little bit late on that one, Charlie
Whooh, I bet that smarts!
(They were sure of victory
(The men of the 7th Cavalry, as they rode on)
(But then from the rear a voice was heard)
(That same brave voice with the trembling word rang loud and clear)
What am I doin’ here?
Please Mr. Custer, I don’t wanna go
Listen, Mr. Custer, please don’t make me go
There’s a redskin waitin’ out there, just fixin to take my hair
A coward I’ve been called, cuz I don’t wanna wind up dead or bald
Please Mr. Custer, I don’t wanna go
(Forward, HO-O-O-O-O!) Oooohhhh
SPOKEN:
I wonder what the injun word for friend is
Let’s see....friend.....kemo sabe, that’s it
KEMO SABE!, HEY OUT THERE, KEMO SABE!
(Sound of arrow whizzing by)
No, that itn’t it
Look at ‘em out there
Runnin’ around like a bunch of wild Indians, heh-heh
Nah, this ain’t no time for jokin’
(Sound of arrows whizzing by)
******
As recorded by CHARLIE DRAKE:
(Shrieks and `Red Indian sounds’ in background)
(That famous day in history)
(The men of the 7th cavalry went riding on)
(And from the rear a voice was heard)
(A brave young man with a trembling word rang loud and clear)
What am I doing here?
Please Mr.Custer, I don’t wanna go
Eh, er, Mr.Custer? Please don’t make me go
I had a dream last night about the comin’ fight
Somebody yelled “Attack!”
And there I stood with an arrow in my back
Please Mr.Custer, I don’t wanna go
Oh-oh, oh..
SPOKEN:
Look at `em bushes out there, they’re movin’
There’s an Indian behind every one of `em
Er, um, Mr.Custer
May I be excused for the rest of the afternoon, please?
Wanna change my library book
OY, WATCH OUT, DUCK YOUR HEAD!
Oo-er, bit late on that one, son
God, I bet that don’t half hurt
(They were sure of victory)
(The men of the 7th Cavalry as they rolled on)
(When from the rear a voice was heard)
(That same great voice with a trembling word rang loud and clear)
What am I doing here?
Please Mr.Custer, I don’t wanna go
Er, listen, er, Mr.Custer? Please don’t make me go
There’s a redskin waitin’out there, waitin’ to cut my hair
A coward I’ve been called
But I don’t wanna wind up dead or bald
Please Mr.Custer, I don’t wanna go
Oo-errr, err-oo
SPOKEN:
Now, let’s see, what’s the Indian word for `friend’?
Oh yes, I know – manyarna, yeah that’s it
Oy, you lot out there `Manyarna’
(Arrow whizzes by) Ooo!
Oooh! No, that ain’t it
Look at `em out there
Running around like a bunch of wild Indians
Bunch of wild Indians! Ha-ha-ha-ha
Now this is no time for joking
(Sound of many arrows whizzing by)
Oo…oh…oo…help!
Mr Custer?
Oh my God!
Exactly - Fetterman fight was a clear underestimation and an ambush.
Nothing comparable to Custer’s Last Stand. The Indians never ambushed Custer, and he never underestimated his foe. Something else happened: Custer find himself alone in the middle of the battle, with reinforcement not coming.
You’re ignoring the obvious point that Custer had plenty of time to form an opinion on the reliability of Benteen and Reno, and then he developed a plan contingent on both of them cooperating effectively with this attack.
A commander’s most important function is to understand and use the men he commands effectively. If Benteen and Reno weren’t up to this plan, Custer should have developed another.
It is pretty well understood that Custer’s only concern in planning the attack was to prevent the Indians from escaping. That part worked. What didn’t work was that he was unable to handle them once he caught them.
Wow ! You should work for “Lonely Planet” for the best adventurous places in the USA !
Great stories - loved it. God Bless the American West.
“Custer had plenty of time to form an opinion on the reliability of Benteen and Reno”
Reno and Benteen were senior commanders with West Point graduation (Reno) and Civil War experience (Reno/Benteen). Benteen had fought the Indians at Washita.
In the military, the “reliability” thing isn’t an excuse. DUTY is what counts. Orders have to be obeyed without question.
Both Benteen and Reno ignored their mission and made a cold betrayal.
Haven't done it for 20 years and I would do it again if someone in my family or friends showed an interest. One more trip. My dad did it every winter until he was 85.
In 69, I was on my way to report for spring training in St. Pete. I drove from Pomona, CA to Houston, 24 hours without stopping and collapsed at a motel exhausted. I was 22 and so stoked for the opportunity I had adrenilin rush for the entire drive.
That's all folks.
You’re a real descendant of the pioneers !
I hate to do a thread hijack - but I too have story.
The same year I visited the Little Big Horn (1995) I was travelling thru the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation going from the Badlands to Fort Robinson Nebraska.
I was going about 65-70 mph in a 50 zone. I came down this large hill and coming up in the opposite direction was a tribal cop.
I knew he had me dead for rights. I immediately slowed down and reached for my wallet and got my ID out. I looked int he rearview mirror and he was already turning around.
I pulled over and he got out of the car. This guy was the biggest frickin’ Indian I had ever seen! He almost blotted out the light when I reached thru the open window to hand him my ID.
I got a stern (but non-condescending) lecture from him about driving properly when I was on tribal lands. He let me go with a warning. I still (to this day) don’t know why I didn’t get a ticket.
Hey Mplssteve, that’s an interesting story.
The people of the ranch in Wyoming warned us not to go in Pine Ridge, because they said the Indians hated the Whites... After a century, it’s pretty ridiculous.
When we were dating, I let my wife use my car to pick up her mom and an aunt to go to the airport and pick up another aunt.
Her mother kept telling her to hurry up or they'd be late. She was stopped by the CHP doing between 80-85.
The cop looked into the car and saw the seniors. My wife said. I'm sorry officer, I was driving under the influence of senior citizens. He laughed, warned her, and let her go.
My first wife was let off by telling the officer she was going for food at half time of the ND USC game and didn't want to miss the final quarter. He asked the score of the game, which she knew.
In both of these situations I would have received the maximum fine.
Both of which were extraordinarily risky maneuvers. The difference is that the southern generals knew their own men, what they were capable of, and also understood the minds of their opponents.
If the Union had had better generals, or better scouting, both battles would have been a disaster for the CSA.
If you divide your force in the face of a superior enemy and win, you are bold. Do the same thing and lose, you’re reckless. Them’s the breaks.
Custer had been bold in many battles and got away with it. This time it turned out he was reckless.
I loved Fort Phil Kearney. I stopped there on the way up to the Little Big Horn.
Fetterman was terribly arrogant. Not only that but the soldiers will still using muzzle-loading rifles. They couldn’t maintain a rapid enough rate of fire to compsenate for being outnumbered.
OTOH, look at the Wagon Box fight. It occurred not far from there. The soldiers and woodsmen there were surprised by the Indians. Admittedly, they had the benefit of being able to fire from behind a barricade of wagons. But it was the breech-loading carbines that really saved the day.
Last but not least, the scenery at the Wagon Box fight is incredible. At least, it was to me.
Do you know the real strength of Indian bands?
It’s not CSA, it’s not well organized or led. A chief can lead warriors, but they can also move by themselves without question. It wasn’t a military force and it was totally lacking organization, discipline and fire control.
Custer knew it. And he was right. There’s no fire control or tactic by the Indians that day - all what they did was slaughtering Custer with heavy losses (see http://www.custerwest.org - “Indian casualties”) and after having been surprised twice.
If Custer had had his full regiment, Little Bighorn would have been another Custer’s victory.
Wagon Box is heroic - and it’s a proof that numbers didn’t count in the Indian wars.
Beecher’s Island: George Forsyth’s 50 men defeated Roman Nose’s 700 Sioux and Cheyenne warriors.
I don't make any claim that Reno and Benteen behaved well, but Custer was responsible. He made a plan using these men, and he was the one responsible when it failed.
If he thought they weren't up to it, he should have planned something different. If they weren't up to it, and he didn't know it, then he by definition failed in the first responsibility of a commander.
I have to admit to not knowing much about Custer (except general biographical details)and the Battle of Litle Big Horn, but when I have the chance I shall research some.
Withholding comment for the time being.
Wahista is known as the Washita Massacre, or to the Cheyenne, the Lodge Pole Massacre. Custer claimed to have killed about 100 men, but it was closer to 11 braves, and 90 old men, women and children.
The day before, Black Kettle had tried to surrender to US forces, only to be rejected by Hazen, who directed them to talk to Phil Sheridan. The following morning Custer's men attacked at dawn, opening fire on the village. The majority of the women and children killed were shot in the back beside or in the river while attempting to escape. After the massacre was over, Custer's men slaughtered some 800 Cheyenne horses. Custer reported that he had captured all their meat, meal, flour, everything they possessed, burned their lodges, leaving the site unfit for habitation.
This of course, is a few years after Chivington's 700 men massacred some 200 Cheyenne at Sand Creek (his men took over 100 scalps, many of them pubic from the women.)
For Custer, payback was a b***h.
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