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JPFO/NRA Have Different Views on BATFE
jpfo.org ^ | December 11, 2006 | The Liberty Crew

Posted on 12/14/2006 11:34:12 AM PST by looscnnn

Recently a JPFO supporter sent a letter to the NRA asking about its position on the BATFE. As our readers know, JPFO has made it a mission to abolish that rogue agency and end federal control and regulation of your firearms.

In their response to our supporter, the NRA spokesperson, on behalf of Sandra Froman, president of the NRA, made several statements that are contrary to what JPFO believes gun rights organizations should support.

"...we support certain federal laws relative to firearms..."

"The Association does not object to many of the federal laws..."

"...greater emphasis should be placed on enforcing existing laws..."

"...NRA did not object to the increase in funding to BATF..."

We've reprinted the NRA letter in full on our website. We've also added a list of questions that the letter raises, as well as what we consider to be the best answer to those questions. You can read both at www.jpfo.org/nraletter.pdf .

If you agree that it is imperative to abolish the BATFE and end federal control and regulation of firearms, please download and share this letter (and our response) with everyone you know.

- The Liberty Crew


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; batfe; guns; jpfo; nra

1 posted on 12/14/2006 11:34:15 AM PST by looscnnn
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To: Joe Brower

Ping


2 posted on 12/14/2006 11:34:32 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: looscnnn

NRA: "Kill us last!"


3 posted on 12/14/2006 11:37:19 AM PST by -=SoylentSquirrel=- (Put Christ in Christmas, and Lead in Liberals)
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To: -=SoylentSquirrel=-

In the letter they state about taking the NFA to the USSC "Also, we do not have a case that is appropriate to the task." Bull, right now there is a case that the defendant has done all kinds of legal research and has a document that he intends to present in is defence. The case is United States vs. Fincher.


4 posted on 12/14/2006 11:49:46 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: looscnnn
--United States vs. Fincher.--

is there an online reference for this?

5 posted on 12/14/2006 11:56:37 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: rellimpank
Lots and lots.
6 posted on 12/14/2006 12:12:37 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: looscnnn; Shooter 2.5

Another nail in the National Reasonable-regulation Asses coffin. Here is an on going collection http://www.nrawol.com

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns. NRA KMA Merry Christmas


7 posted on 12/14/2006 12:20:29 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

Did not know about that site, looks like I will have some reading to do. What do you think about the Fincher case and his "Silver Bullet" document?


8 posted on 12/14/2006 12:38:35 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: Yo-Yo; rellimpank

On http://usvfincher.blogspot.com/index.html are links to the Militia of Washington County, Arkansas (which he is a member of, Lt. Commander) and his/their "Silver Bullet" document (I am currently reading).


9 posted on 12/14/2006 12:44:08 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: looscnnn; All

With people like Grover Norquist on the NRA board of directors it's only going to get worse.


10 posted on 12/14/2006 12:47:16 PM PST by WatchingInAmazement ("Nothing is more expensive than cheap labor," prof. Vernon Briggs, labor economist Cornell Un.)
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To: looscnnn

Their links are to keepandbeararms.com archive http://keepandbeararms.com/NRA/

I only know of the Fincher case.

The NRA is too crippled by compromise to be a leader in pro-gun activism or Rights restoration. The NRA sucks, the NRA sucks the oxygen from activism, the NRA sucks the money from advocacy. The NRA sucks.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns. NRA KMA Merry Christmas


11 posted on 12/14/2006 1:00:33 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

I agree with Fincher 100% in principle, but he did knowingly break a federal law, no matter what the Silver Bullet says. This is the same baiting tactic used by the Imams on a plane, and not very wise, IMHO.


12 posted on 12/14/2006 2:43:54 PM PST by FNG
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To: FNG

So I went off to read the Silver Bullet - downloading as I write - and found this...

"I'm sure there will be no shortage of forum chat room warriors pompously declaring that Fincher is getting what he asked for by flouting the law in the local media. They will be wrong, and as shallow in their opinions as they are in their commitment to liberty."

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns. Merry Christmas NRA KMA


13 posted on 12/14/2006 2:51:17 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

I have downloaded the Silver Bullet, and sent it home to read later. The Firearms Act of 1934 is unconstitutional, but so is most of the crap the gov pulls nowadays. It is still not wise to blatantly violate federal laws, especially firearms laws. We are not talking about pulling the tags off of matresses, here. If I were a lawer, I would help Fincer fight the legality of gun laws for free. Breaking a law is not the best way to challenge it, unless you are a protected minority.


14 posted on 12/14/2006 3:01:48 PM PST by FNG
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To: looscnnn

Why is JPFO writing letters to the NRA? If JPFO is so effective why did they even wonder what their position is? If there is that "perfect" court case which will render all gun laws unconstitutional why doesn't JPFO take the case themselves?

I like the NRA and I'm a member. That doesn't mean I expect the NRA to ask permission from JPFO or the GOA to do something. Unless they are trying to siphon off gun owners to their own organization such tactics are counter productive.

If JPFO or the GOA is so effective, they should try to enroll those other 76 million gunowers and leave the NRA to their own strategies.


15 posted on 12/14/2006 3:36:47 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: looscnnn

Does the NRA ignore the votes of its members and, thus, they're not responsible? Or do the members ignore the actions of the NRA and are invincibly ignorant? Democracy is the rule of fools by fools.

The NRA sucks. The NRA sucks the oxygen from pro-gun advocacy. The NRA sucks the money from pro-gun activism. The NRA sucks and its 'members' are too stoopid to see that their Emperor has no clothes!

Read the JPFO .pdf

Bet he's a Republican-'conservative' too. PHUI


16 posted on 12/14/2006 4:44:57 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: FNG
I agree with Fincher 100% in principle, but he did knowingly break a federal law, no matter what the Silver Bullet says. This is the same baiting tactic used by the Imams on a plane, and not very wise, IMHO.

The only way you get to challenge it in court is to be charged with violating it.

17 posted on 12/14/2006 4:51:43 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

First off, read what they wrote. "Recently a JPFO supporter sent a letter to the NRA asking about its position on the BATFE." Notice it says "JPFO supporter sent", not "JPFO sent". JPFO did not write the letter. Also that means that the supporter wanted to know where the NRA stood on the items, not JPFO. I think that JPFO has posted in the past where NRA stands on certain things & Aaron Zelman talked to the NRA board in 1994 (http://www.jpfo.org/speech.htm), so that would lead me to believe that they know were the NRA stands on the issues.

The JPFO has helped (financially) with cases that the NRA wouldn't/didn't, Rick Celata (KT Ordnance) is one of the cases. I think they helped with John Glover's case also.

They are not saying that the NRA needs anyones permission, nor do they say that the NRA should.

They are trying to enroll the other gunowners, if they happen to enroll current/former NRA members that is the member's decision, not yours. They are growing like any group does, you can't just start up a group and poof have millions of members (be realistic).


18 posted on 12/15/2006 6:02:31 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

I have read it along with the NRAwol site. We have people on this forum that think that JPFO & GOA are just cancers (or something like that) because they could take members away from the NRA, see post 15, or they base effectiveness of a group based on size or number of articles written about them, etc.


19 posted on 12/15/2006 6:07:18 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

I think the NRA ignores the members on somethings and some of the members are ignorant of the actions/stances of the NRA.


20 posted on 12/15/2006 6:08:47 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: tacticalogic; FNG

Yup, the interesting thing about this case (from what I understand) is that there are no other laws that were broken (unlike other cases that could have been used to challenged) that could interfere with getting the case heard. Fincher's record is clean (almost as if he has been preparing all his life for this).


21 posted on 12/15/2006 6:14:07 AM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: FNG
I agree with Fincher 100% in principle, but he did knowingly break a federal law, no matter what the Silver Bullet says.

You need a real case or controversy, plus some actual (or immediately potential) harm that can be fixed by a court in order to have standing. Fincher couldn't just challenge the NFA on a theoretical basis - otherwise so could all of us, and the courts would be dealing with millions of cases per month.

22 posted on 12/15/2006 8:33:51 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: looscnnn
An anonymous JPFO "supporter" sends a letter to the NRA and somehow that letter is published on the official JPFO website and you're trying to tell me JPFO didn't have anything to do with it??? JPFO has just lost my support.
23 posted on 12/15/2006 11:11:08 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

I have the feeling that you were never a supporter. They were probably asked by the supporter to keep the his/her id protected. Oh well, I doubt that JPFO would want you as a member based on some of your comments.


24 posted on 12/15/2006 12:36:16 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: looscnnn

You lost that bet.
It started when a lady helped us to fight the Oak Park Illinios gun ban. She had the tattoo on her wrist. She said she would never allow a government to disarm her. Never again.


25 posted on 12/15/2006 2:37:45 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

So what, because you didn't like the tattoo or you didn't like what she said?


26 posted on 12/15/2006 4:46:43 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: Nailbiter

self ping


27 posted on 12/16/2006 3:18:36 AM PST by Nailbiter
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To: looscnnn

well said bump


28 posted on 12/16/2006 3:35:33 AM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: looscnnn

I said you lost that bet.


29 posted on 12/16/2006 5:00:05 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5
It started when a lady helped us to fight the Oak Park Illinios gun ban.

IIRC the NRA lost that suit.

L

30 posted on 12/16/2006 5:10:00 AM PST by Lurker (Historys most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: basil

This was already posted and we both missed it....ugh!


31 posted on 12/19/2006 11:35:11 AM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Oh well--thanks for getting it up again, anyway! If we missed it, many more must have also. Apparently the Gun List wasn't pinged.

IMHO, this "altercation", for want of a better word, between the NRA and the JPFO has brought up a lot of points of which all gun owners should be aware.

And note to all: Don't forget Second Amendment Sisters when you're discussing guns right orgs! We are working constantly to bring a lot of women up to speed on these and other things facing the American gun owner today. We may be small in comparison to the other groups, but for an organization with no paid personnel, no office anywhere but cyberspace, and no money, we are managing to keep our heads above water, and our membership growing. (All donations kindly accepted!)


32 posted on 12/19/2006 1:01:31 PM PST by basil (Exercise your Second Amendment rights--buy another gun today.)
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To: basil

BTW, the "Fincher" case being discussed is the one in Arkansas we were talking about.


33 posted on 12/19/2006 1:20:21 PM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org Self defense is a basic human right!)
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