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JON CARROLL [ Thumbs Up For 'Cut And Run' ]
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 10/24/6 | Jon Carroll

Posted on 10/24/2006 7:43:16 AM PDT by SmithL

"The principal sin of the neoconservatives is overbearing arrogance. It is not so much that they have been wrong. It is that nobody has ever convinced them that they've ever been wrong."

I didn't say that. Oh, I said stuff like it a few times, but that particular quote come from David Keene, who is the chairman of the American Conservative Union. Like a lot of people on the rightish side of the political spectrum, he bought the rhetoric, he accepted the brilliance of Donald Rumsfeld's idea for a brand-new downsized "smart" army, he hung in there when things appeared to be going wrong -- and now he's angry.

I never believed the hype, but that gives me no special virtue. I was disinclined to believe George W. Bush from the first time I heard him speak. In one sense, it would have been nice if he'd been right because we would have had peace and stability in Iraq and Afghanistan, a national budget not distorted by war and war-related boondoggles, and a few thousand American citizens who would still be alive.

The neocons' great faith-based fantasy, that two wars could be fought at the same time without increasing the size of the military, has been an unimaginable disaster. The stop-loss policies succeeded in alienating the soldiers from their own civilian commanders, which is never a useful situation. Even the Republicans, with the exception of the folks in the bunker on Pennsylvania Avenue, are conceding defeat. Horse, barn door, bang.

But even if Rumsfeld had been a better tactician and strategist, even if the right generals had been given the right resources at the right time, the war would still have been wrong. In a civilized society, or one that pretends to civilization, wars are always a last resort.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bluestatewhine; cutandrun; dncpropaganda; gutesswhiner; treasonmedia
Jon Carroll usually doesn't have a headline on his column, so I included the title of the link from the SFGate page.
1 posted on 10/24/2006 7:43:17 AM PDT by SmithL
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Consider the Source


2 posted on 10/24/2006 7:43:40 AM PDT by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: SmithL

Dear Jon Carroll,

ESAD.

Sincerely,

The World


3 posted on 10/24/2006 7:55:06 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: SmithL
...he accepted the brilliance of Donald Rumsfeld's idea for a brand-new downsized "smart" army,...

And if Rumsfeld's idea had been an old fashioned expanded brutal and stupid army, you'd be whining about that instead.

4 posted on 10/24/2006 8:01:02 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: SmithL

a poll on al-jaz shows respondents want US to "cut and run"...:o


5 posted on 10/24/2006 8:01:42 AM PDT by callthemlikeyouseethem (Miss England: "Even moderate Muslims are turning to terrorism to prove themselves.")
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To: JimRed
To Jon Carroll---Chesty Puller would not approve of talking in a defeatist, demoralizing way while the troops are in harms way.

"We're surrounded!--they can't get away this time"
6 posted on 10/24/2006 8:45:39 AM PDT by Griddlee
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To: SmithL

Maybe the rabid Know Nothings in the Junk Media might actually consider the FACTS rather then just regugiate the Democrat Talking Points.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Security_Forces


7 posted on 10/24/2006 1:31:07 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (EeevilCon, Snowflake, Conservative Fundamentalist Gun Owning Bush Bot Dittohead reporting for duty!)
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To: SmithL

Where the barf alert for this rabid idiot?

Why Iraq

One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the "Anti War movement") of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US's National "News" media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.

Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.

To start with Saddam's Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it's diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it's military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.

The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.

Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).

Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.

There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.

Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" or dumbest of all "We are creating terrorists" then to actually THINK.

Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their "god" will reward them for killing us.

So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.

Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming "We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad" and recruit the next round of "holy warriors". Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it


8 posted on 10/24/2006 1:34:44 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (EeevilCon, Snowflake, Conservative Fundamentalist Gun Owning Bush Bot Dittohead reporting for duty!)
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