Posted on 07/18/2006 8:12:32 AM PDT by BerlinStrausbaugh
The war over immigration reform among conservatives continues, and, as in most wars, truth has been one of the first casualties.
Those who disagree with the hardening positions of people who would adopt more restrictive policies or with people who favor less restrictive measures are attacked as know-nothings, traitors or handmaidens of evil forces out to destroy the America we live in.
Many conservatives reacted angrily to the way the Bush administration tried to demonize opposition to the president’s quasi-amnesty and guest-worker proposals when they were first introduced. Critics at the time were characterized as racists or “nativists” more interested in trashing Mexicans than in a rational approach to immigration reform. Rep. Tom Tancredo (R) of Colorado was semipublicly horsewhipped by White House officials and told never again to darken the president’s door.
It was a foolish way to begin an important debate and was quickly abandoned, as even the most ardent supporters of the Bush approach realized that the critics were speaking for millions of Americans who were troubled by the president’s plan. Since then, while sticking to its guns in advocating what it likes to call a “comprehensive” solution to the immigration problem, the administration has moved border security up as the first and most important element of any plan.
The problem is that rhetoric won’t do it, for the simple reason that, having been there and done that in 1986, people want to see results. Whether they might support other elements of a “comprehensive” plan, that support won’t materialize until they see evidence of a real commitment to gain control of our borders.
As the debate opened several years ago, those seeking more restrictionist or rational policies were unequivocal in acknowledging the importance of legal immigration and rejected as farcical the charge that what they really want are not secure but closed borders and a massive national effort to round up the illegals here today and send them packing. But positions have hardened in the days since.
I count myself among those who believe that we must first secure our borders and that we should make it uncomfortable for those here illegally to work or take advantage of the perks that go with being a U.S. citizen. I oppose nonresident tuition for their children and would change the law so that those born of illegals on U.S. soil wouldn’t automatically become eligible for citizenship. I support strong employer sanctions, and I oppose the sort of amnesty proposed by Sen John McCain (R-Ariz.).
At the same time, I recognize, as do most Americans, that we benefit from legal immigration and should continue to serve as a beacon to those seeking a better life because in doing so they can improve our lives as well as their own. The problem is not where immigrants come from but whether we require those seeking citizenship to learn and commit to what it means to be an American and whether we welcome those we need without overwhelming our ability to assimilate or absorb them.
The vehemence of the recent attack on Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) for trying to come up with a plan that would mandate border security first, impose heavy sanctions on employers who hire illegals and require them to leave the country if they ever hope to work here legally shocked me. Tom Tancredo attacked Pence before he could know what was in the plan, Pat Buchanan says that his disagreement with him and his friends signals the end of Pence’s career, and some of Pence’s colleagues whom he counts among his strongest friends and supporters are looking at him these days as if he’s some sort of traitor.
Actually, that’s exactly what Buchanan thinks he is; a traitor to the “cause” and a part of the secret plan to grant amnesty to illegals. Those of us who actually had kind things to say about Pence’s approach were cited in his attack as indicators that “the fix is in.”
Pence’s approach is not perfect, and he has been modifying it to answer legitimate substantive criticism. That’s the way things are supposed to work. It’s the way serious public figures go about the business of solving problems and developing sound public policy.
It’s too early to say whether Pence’s willingness to tackle one of the most serious and politically dangerous policy questions facing the nation from a conservative perspective will lead to an acceptable solution, but, unlike many of his critics, Mike Pence must be counted among Washington’s most serious public figures.
Mr. Keene is the chairman of the American Conservative Union and a managing associate with the Carmen Group, a Washington, D.C.-based governmental-affairs firm.
The above op-ed is also available at http://www.conservative.org/columnists/keene/060718dk.asp.
Real commitment. Lots of luck.
These members of the EPC (Elite Political Class) are more interested in the "Guest Voter Program" than they are in the wishes of the American people.
How can we have a War On Terror with porous borders?
The Pence Shamnesty is as bad as the rest:
Tancredo advanced a guest worker program, along with border security, in 2003. IOW, he promoted a plan almost identical to Pence's.
But, now, Tancredo blasts Pence's plan because Tancredo needs illegal immigration as an issue. He has no intention of signing off on any plan that would remove it from the radar.
In all compromise, the evil advances and the good recedes.
Pence's plan is still amnesty for illegal workers and the criminals who employ them. They take a quick trip, come back to the same jobs, and the employer gets to call his illegal worker legal. If that's not amnesty, I don't know what is.
IBTOBL?
Missed it by a few posts. Oh well, there's always next time.
The war over immigration reform among conservatives continues...
----
Wrong. Conservatives are united on the ILLEGAL immigration issue. The war exists between vote-hungry LIBERALS and conservatives. Conservatives want the border SEALED then deal with the ILLEGALS here. Liberals just want amnesty, the continued rape of the taxpayer, and to sweep it all under the rug.
One faction is concerned about America, the other is only concerned with gettting re-elected and vote-power. Such a gigantic disparity.
Here ya go:
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr3534.html
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose >births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).
(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was, after subtracting taxes immigrants pay,a NET $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle,Rice University.)
The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.
29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstration by the thousands, Why can't they take charge over the corruption in their own country?
We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.
On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted, pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this profession."
Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon,Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.
Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals. Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so? According to the L.A. Times, Orange County, California is home to 275 gangs with 17,000 members; 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.
Say It Ain’t So, Mike [ The Pence immigration plan has let conservatives down.]
They refuse to pay attention to the American citizens and are, by and large, reprehensible!
Well......Homeland Security is doing a great job of shaking down gray haired old white folks in airports so no-one can say they're not trying.......(sarc/off)
If you keep posting facts, you will upset the Open Borders, pro-Illegals crew we have here at FR.
I have no idea what any of that has to do with the issue of a guest worker program proposed by Mike Pence, and opposed by Tancredo, who had his own, identical guest worker program three years ago.
Great info.......just curious, how recent was that LAT data regarding illegals?
It's not amnesty. You guys are wearing that word out to the point where it is just about meaningless.
Sorry, sink, but it is, no matter how much you and others pretend otherwise. What really matters to illegals is being allowed to stay in this country, instead of being deported the way current laws call for. They typically paid thousands to coyotes to get here - what's another couple grand to keep from getting sent back?
It's amnesty until it gets run through the Clintonian parse-o-matic.
The penalty for illegal entry into the United States is deportation along with an order not to return.
Anything other than deportation with an order not to return is amnesty.
Doesn't matter how you try to slice it any differently.
ping
Every poll that includes a guest worker program in any of its questions finds that these programs are supported by a majority along with border enforcement.
"identical guest worker program"
They are opposite, not identical, on the issue of amnesty.
If you read Section 145 of Tancredo's proposed H.R. 3534, posted above, you will note: "Repeal of Amnesty Provision" that is, of section 249 of the Immigration & Nationality Act (8 USC 1259).
Another poster who refuses to deal with reality.
I don't believe they'll stick their necks out like that again.
Not PC!
On the contrary, I'm not the one trying to re-define a term.
You are the one claiming anything less that what the law calls for is not amnesty.
You don't get to change definitions just to suit your arguement.
Link please.
We really need to have a source for those statistics before we pass them around or the obc will use it to discredit the anti illegal position.
....I agree....if the borders were really enforced and done properly, I've always been of the mind that a coherent guest worker program would be ok if we issues ID cards etc etc.....but true amnesty I would be against....I see Pence's plan at least closer to a reasonable compromise then Bush's or McCain's plan
Don't forget number 5: there will be no limit on the number of "guest" workers admitted for at least 3 years after the plan is initiated.
Great. No amnesty there, no way, definitely not.
I call it exactly what it is, sink.
but Pence recognizes reality and most of those who insist on "sending them all back" do not.
Really? How do we know trying to get them to self-deport will not work until we try it?
Every poll that includes a guest worker program in any of its questions finds that these programs are supported by a majority along with border enforcement.
I wonder how many of those who support a guest worker program are aware of the problems that Europe's long-standing guest worker programs have created there?
If we truly need more workers, make them legal green-card immigrants. We don't need a two-tier society.
Exactly. Pence knows that HR4437, by itself, is a non-starter in the Senate (the Senate refused to even take it up). So, he's combined 4437 with a guest worker program as the basis for negotiations and compromise.
Compromise is how politics is done and legislation is crafted, but it's a dirty word around here.
No intelligent, thinking person is dumb enough to have the mindset of "just send'em all back".......that's just a red herring thrown up by the useful idiots from the open border crowd to skew the argument. All we need is border and employer enforcement plus a severe cutback in all the welfare services (and ID fraud connected with it) and in short order the vast majority will DEPORT themselves.
Hmm by that logic ALL words are now meaningless since they are being used!
susie
...and all those stupid idiots who have been saying that illegal immigration could cause the GOP a problem were... RIGHT!
"The true rule in determining to embrace or reject anything is not whether it have any evil in it but whether it has more evil than good. There are few things wholly evil and wholly good. About everything is an inseparable compound of the two."
Abraham Lincoln, on `Compromise'
It's a dirty word when the compromise in question makes matters worse, not better.
The fact that the OBL are screaming that it will not work leads me to believe they think it MIGHT, so they want to do their level best to discredit it so it will not be tried.
susie
BerlinStrausbaugh Since Jul 11, 2006
Love the way supposedly "Conservative" Freepers fall for the DNC's "Virtual Campaigner" keep the Conservative fractionalized Election year program Funny how quick you all to actively work for the DNC. This is really funny to watch. What a server case of Projection the Antis suffer from! Utterly absurd for those who have done NOTHING but scream hate and bile at anyone who disagrees with their "Shoot all the Illegals" dogma to complain when people return their fire at them.
How about you all reign in your inflamed purple prose and hysteric ranting and actually offer some SOLUTIONS? What most of us Freepers object to is this habit by the Freeper Fringes to scream hate and bile in place of any SERIOUS solutions. Screaming "Deport them Now" "Amnesty" Open Borders Crowd" are SLOGANS, not solutions.
If you the Ultras so object to be mocked, quit throwing hysteric tempertantrums and acting like petulant children.
We offer quite a few. If you stopped screaming and started reading, you might know that.
Funny, you sound like Obrador.
..haha....I know that all too well....in fact, sometimes I don't even post anymore on some threads taken over by the intolerant, narrow minded, my way or the highway bunch.. I still have my principles, but there are times for compromise like you said
LOL. It is you with the inflamed hysterics. Just look at your post.
As far as solutions, many have been offered... you just don't like them because it's not exactly what Bush says.
Have a nice day.
Oh yeah -
MNJohnnie
Since Feb 18, 2004
Solutions....
-End anchor babies.
-End all government support for illegals at the federal, state and local levels.
-Build a wall on the border.
-End chatch and release, if you're caught here illegally you're immediately deported.
-Make it illegal for any state to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens.
-Illegal for any business, or anyone else, to accept matricular consular cards as a means of identification.
-Make it illegal for banks, or anyone else, to offer mortgages to illegals.
-Clamp down on workplace enforcement.
-Share all duplicate SS information with federal, state and local authorities to allow arrests for identity theft at all levels.
These are but a few solutions.
This administration wants amnesty.
Pence’s approach is not perfect, and he has been modifying it to answer legitimate substantive criticism. That’s the way things are supposed to work. It’s the way serious public figures go about the business of solving problems and developing sound public policy.
Yes, the people don't want amnesty, so we'll try to trick them.
It’s too early to say whether Pence’s willingness to tackle one of the most serious and politically dangerous policy questions facing the nation from a conservative perspective will lead to an acceptable solution, but, unlike many of his critics, Mike Pence must be counted among Washington’s most serious public figures.
He wants amnesty so we must take him seriously! Da, comrade!
Mr. Keene is the chairman of the American Conservative Union and a managing associate with the Carmen Group, a Washington, D.C.-based governmental-affairs firm.
I wonder how many illegal aliens live in his neighborhood.
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