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Montenegro vote opens separatist Pandora's box
AFP ^ | 23 May 2006 | Calin Neacsu

Posted on 05/23/2006 11:25:00 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

Montenegro's independence could open a Pandora's box for other separatist movements in Europe and the former Soviet Union, with some already claiming the right to follow the same path.

Separatists in Spain's Basque and Catalan regions were among the first to welcome Montenegro's independence vote as a positive omen for their aspirations of loosening ties with Madrid.

But Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos stressed the situations in his country and Montenegro were "politically, diplomatically, juridically" incomparable and that making such a comparison would represent a "great irresponsibility".

His view was supported by European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who said any such comparisons would be "delirious".

A total of 55,5% of Montenegrin voters who took part in Sunday's referendum opted for independence from the tiny Balkan state's federation with Serbia.

Podgorica's union with Belgrade was the last vestige of the former Yugoslav federation, consisting of six republics that broke apart in a series of wars in the 1990s.

However, after Montenegro the EU has to immediately tackle the issue of the United Nations-administered Serbian province of Kosovo, where ethnic Albanians are the majority. Kosovo Albanians hope to gain independence this year, a demand Belgrade fiercely opposes.

Tim Judah, a Balkans specialist at the Centre for European Reform based in London, said regional stability depended far more on Kosovo -- "the final act in this 15-year drama" -- than on Montenegro.

"Compared to Kosovo, Montenegro is easy," he said, stressing that "Kosovo is a much, much bigger problem".

"Although some refuse to establish a link, possible independence of Kosovo, which would be internationally recognised, would legitimise the ambitions of other separatists who never had their own state," a Western diplomat based in the Croatian capital Zagreb told Agence France-Presse, wishing to remain anonymous.

Bosnian Serbs have already said Montenegro's independence was a good model to be followed by their entity of Republika Srpska, which, along with the Muslim-Croat Federation, has made up post-war Bosnia.

For those fighting for the independence of the Germanic Tyrol region of Italy, and its annexation to Austria, the outcome of Montenegro's referendum inspired dreams to organise a similar vote.

A senior Russian lawmaker estimated that Montenegro's decision to separate from Serbia would spur debate on the status of Kosovo and could set a "heavy" precedent for other countries with separatist minorities.

Konstantin Kosachev, chairperson of the Russian Parliament's foreign-affairs committee, warned of setting a precedent over Kosovo.

"This will create a precedent heavy with consequences for other regions," he said, citing in particular Turkish northern Cyprus and Spain's Basque separatists.

But even in the former Soviet Union, several regions are hoping to follow the lead of Montenegro. They were unilaterally proclaimed during the bloody conflicts that followed its 1991 collapse and supported by Moscow, but not recognised by the international community.

Among them, the breakaway republics of Transdniestr in Moldova and Abkhazia in Georgia, were the first to say the vote serves as a model of "self-determination".

"One can only welcome such a civilised method for gaining self-determination," said the "president" of Abkhazia, Sergei Bagapch, quoted by Interfax.

The "foreign minister" of Transdniestr, Valeri Litskai, said the outcome of Sunday's referendum in the tiny Balkan republic was a day for celebration.

"The chief diplomats of all the unrecognised republics of the former Soviet Union were satisfied" with the referendum result, he said after a meeting with representatives of regional minorities in Moscow. -- AFP


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abkhazia; ajustcause; bagapsh; balkans; clintonistas; clintonlegacy; clintonsquagmire; democracy; freedom; freedomdighters; georgia; hoopielite; ihoppy; liberty; majorityrule; mark502ss; moldova; pancakeboy; russia; selfdetermination; sorosfluffers; spain; transnistria; wethepeople
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To: Lion in Winter
Poor mark is a islamic sympathizer who REFUSES to condemn the destruction of ANY CHRISTIAN CHURCHES by his pals the ALbanian clans

I condemn the Kosovar Albanian destruction of Serb churches in Kosovo as well as the Serb attacks on Albanian mosques, tekkes, and Albanian Catholic Churches. I also condemn the Serb destruction of the hundreds of Christian churches & monasteries they dynamited, shelled, looted, and otherwise desecrated in Croatia and the Croat-inhabited areas of Bosnia.

So Lion, do you condemn the Serb attacks on Croatian and Albanian Christian Churches?

41 posted on 05/23/2006 7:08:27 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Lion in Winter
SERBIAN LAND... and KOSOVO will always be so!!You simply do not know enough about KOSOVO

LOL

Or you side with islamics mongrel Albanians..

ALL CAPS makes up for neither your ignorance or your racism.

42 posted on 05/23/2006 7:14:43 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: kosta50
Kosta, you are correct in that the major population shift occurred in Kosovo in the 1600-1700s after failed revolts against the Ottomans; as exemplified by the Serb Great Migaration at the end of the 17th Century. Partly as a result of that population movement, generation after generation of Albanians has lived in Kosovo for the last several hundred years and--as the Library of Congress Country study says--Albanians "have constituted the vast majority of Kosovo's population since at least the eighteenth century."

In any case, for obvious reasons, arguments for sovereignty based on who lived somewhere hundreds of years ago are not valid. The problem Serbs have with Kosovo is the illegitimacy of an oppressive government. As Senator Jesse Helms said in his speech to the United Nations:

But nations derive their sovereignty – their legitimacy – from the consent of the governed. Thus, it follows, that nations can lose their legitimacy when they rule without the consent of the governed; they deservedly discard their sovereignty by brutally oppressing their people. Slobodan Milosevic cannot claim sovereignty over Kosovo when he has murdered Kosovars and piled their bodies into mass graves.

And therein lies the crux of the argument for Kosovo independence, not Albanian demographics or ancient Serb claims.

43 posted on 05/23/2006 7:41:48 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
["I also condemn the Serb destruction of the hundreds of Christian churches & monasteries they dynamited, shelled, looted, and otherwise desecrated in Croatia and the Croat-inhabited areas of Bosnia."]

Dear Mark: "'Civil' War is Hell." (General Sherman). However, you seemingly support Ustasha Croatians.
44 posted on 05/23/2006 7:52:31 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: mark502inf; FormerLib
Race... albanians are not a race.

TaLk about ignorant... MARK IT IS you WHO IS IGNORANT... albanians a RACE.... hahaha!!!

45 posted on 05/23/2006 7:52:36 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: mark502inf

YOU are a mussie sympathizer!! Proved time and timne again...NOW, go away!


46 posted on 05/23/2006 7:54:32 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: kosta50

He IS a mussie apologist!! WHAT do you expect from him?? Sense???


47 posted on 05/23/2006 7:55:49 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Of course he supports ANYBODY AND ANYTHING WHICH HARMS SERBIAN ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS.

What do you expect from a mussie or utaschi apologist!!

48 posted on 05/23/2006 7:58:12 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: FormerLib
FormerLib, the Aztlan-Kosovo comparison holds no water. The argument for independence of Kosovo is the same one we used in our Revolution. It is based on the illegitimate nature of an oppressive government and the inherent right of people to fight for their freedom against such a government.

When the US government dismisses all the Hispanic local officials in the Southwest and replaces them with Anglos from outside the area, fires Hispanic workers from their jobs, beats & jails those who protest, burns the villages & schools & religious buildings of the locals, and then sends in the army assisted by drunken bands of paramilitaries to wholesale cleanse the Hispanic population from out of their homes, no matter their citizenship or how long they've lived there--shooting enough to "encourage" cooperation--then and only then can you make a comparison between Aztlan and Kosovo.

As US Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton said:

"... the violent disintegration of Yugoslavia, the ethnic cleansing and humanitarian crisis of 1999, ... make Kosovo a very, very special case."

49 posted on 05/23/2006 8:06:45 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
However, you seemingly support Ustasha Croatians.

Classic Balkans logic. I condemn the destruction of Catholic Churches by the Serbs in the 1990s and you translate that into me supporting WWII Croatian Nazis.

50 posted on 05/23/2006 8:11:53 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: FormerLib

Markies trying to back down.... HAHA!!


51 posted on 05/23/2006 8:28:41 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: mark502inf
Let's see HOW MANY SERBS WERE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED FROM KRAJINA??? 500,000 plus folks...

and your CROAT butchers destroyed 10 times AS MANY SERBIAN CHURCHES than any Serb or moslem did in Croatia.

I hate Croatia ... for what they did in WWII at Jasenovic, they have no saving graces whatsoever.

Just keep your head in the utaschi/mussie sand-pit...

52 posted on 05/23/2006 8:35:04 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics are not religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims!!)
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To: mark502inf
["Classic Balkans logic. I condemn the destruction of Catholic Churches by the Serbs in the 1990s and you translate that into me supporting WWII Croatian Nazis."]

Very good. I knew what you meant. However, in short, wars in the Balkans have different meanings (and there effects) to the many different people involved (me a Serb). It depends on who you ask for the interpretation. Do you understand (perception is important)? LIBO
53 posted on 05/23/2006 8:44:27 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Do you understand (perception is important)? LIBO

I do, but we should strive to stay fact-based both when we send messages and when we receive them. The results of perception-based, fact-free reasoning are readily apparent in the rantings of the poster one above you. However, there are more significant ramifications to that way of thinking in Balkans politics.

One of the incentives for the Montenegrins to vote for secession was that Serbia was not going forward into structures such as the EU and NATO and that Montenegro wouldn't either because it was tied to Serbia.

Serbia was road-blocked primarily because of its failure to deal with the war crimes issue, specifically Mladic & Karadzic. It was politically impossible--and perhaps even hazardous to your health (think of the late Prime Minister Djindjic) to deal realistically with Serbia's recent bad behavior in the Balkans. And the reason for that was perceptions--polls showed that large numbers of Serbs didn't believe there had been a massacre at Srbrenica or that hundreds of Kosovo Albanian bodies were hidden in mass graves inside Serbia even after their own government announced it. The Serb Radical Party—advocate of Greater Serbia and denier of any Serbian wrong-doing—is still the largest party in Serbia. And the result insofar as Kosovo is that as long as Serbs continue to believe that they did nothing wrong in Kosovo, the international community in no way is going to put the territory of Kosovo and the lives of its ethnic Albanians back under Serbian control.

54 posted on 05/24/2006 1:20:30 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf

I just don't see how Montenegro is going to make it on its own (economically) given it's small population 600,000. They're going to have to increase foreign tourism.


55 posted on 05/24/2006 7:49:17 AM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
I just don't see how Montenegro is going to make it on its own (economically) given it's small population 600,000. They're going to have to increase foreign tourism.

Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Malta, Andorra are all pretty small and doing OK. The fundamentals of a good economy are property rights, low taxes, low trade barriers, deregulation, and freedom of movement for goods & services & labor & capital. Add in a decent infrastructure and something people want and you are there. Montenegro has huge tourist potential, but needs some work in the other areas--in the long run Montegegro will do jsut fine.

56 posted on 05/24/2006 8:52:23 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
FormerLib, the Aztlan-Kosovo comparison holds no water.

Wrong as always, marky, wrong as always.

Following the collapse of the Albanian economy, Kosovo was flooded by illegal aliens, often drawn from the criminal classes of Albania. They initiated a campaign of terror starting in the 1980's (or continued were they had left off previously, if you prefer) and began to drive out the indigenous Serb population. When they achieved majority status, they claimed it as their own.

And it will happen again here thanks to cowards such as you.

57 posted on 05/24/2006 4:38:00 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: mark502inf; LjubivojeRadosavljevic
I condemn the destruction of Catholic Churches by the Serbs in the 1990s...

Typical Soros fluffery going on here (be very careful to avoid it when he spits).

You are referring to the actions of the Communists while you support the Islamofascists. Your latest attempt at appeasement will not save you.

58 posted on 05/24/2006 4:39:59 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: mark502inf

Mladic is in Montenegro and you've insured he will get away, hahhahahhah!


59 posted on 05/24/2006 4:40:47 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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To: Lion in Winter
Markies trying to back down....

He just needs a quick change of kneepads.

60 posted on 05/24/2006 4:41:45 PM PDT by FormerLib ("...the past ten years in Kosovo will be replayed here in what some call Aztlan.")
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