Posted on 05/19/2006 2:53:23 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
So the bottom line is?
How knuckleheaded is that?
In order for illegals to come out ahead, they would have to pay $2,000 precious dollars, pay all back taxes (how will the government staff that office?) and start paying taxes. Those are the incentives to citizenship.
There is no disincentive for staying illegal! Stay under the radar and you pay nothing, but neither is there a penalty, that I can see, for staying illegal and leaving things status quo. It's ridiculous. It's wrong-headed. It's pandering.
The bottomline is that Bush was talking about a program for workers here and also something to deal with future Mexican workers and I suppose else where that wanted to work.
For instance in the Debate "We need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows."
That means to me that people who are here now. Versus a work program that gives temp work for a period of time that would be ongoing but would not have a citizenship path by itself. HE envisioned both
LOL !
I got to imagine that the carrot will be if you don't participate your not going to be a citizen. Plus if you don't sign up then your out of here no if and's or buts.
Show me.
He wants one hemisphere, free trade, and travel a la the EU. That's it in a nutshell, and the thinking in DC is that a few potholes in the road to the paradise of One Hemisphere are to be expected. Loss of sovereignty, culture,language, betrayal of the US citizenry, rampant drug trade, gangs, violence, burden of educating, feeding, tending everyone in the world being just a few. You know what they say about the road to hell? Bush's good intentions and big business's greed have paved the way. This will never work because, among other things, they never took into account other cultures, mores, etc.. And nobody seemed to care that we were inventing a new slave class. Immoral? Illegal? Unethical? Who cares. It's for the common good. Sound familiar?
They tried to shove NAFTA, etc. down the southern hemisphere's throat and it didn't work. So import the whole bunch up here willy nilly, turn them all into Americans. They kept the full plan more or less under wraps because the other countries would be insulted. It's not pleasant to read in the papers that you're a third world country, which they are. So rather than have an honest dialogue with the US voters, he chose up sides and we lost. There's nothing more dangerous than a fanatic, and for Bush and his pals in the CFR, that's what this is, a belief that borders on fanaticism. The dems have other aims in mind, but intend to go down the same road. Only faster.
I even figgered he might have a soft spot for em.
But I had no idea granting them amnesty would be the single most important issue for him outside the WOT and that he would pursue such a policy with such dogged determination and to the detriment of his entire party.
I hope you find a nice non-denominational christian congregation to be part of. One that sticks to the scriptures and leaves politics out of the chapel.
It would be significant, except that no ever believed the temporary nonsense in the first place.
If illegal aliens aren't being compelled to leave now, why would they ever be compelled to do so later after their "temporary" period? Who would make them? President Bush?
So.....
Show us where in this transcript Bush says he is going to give permanent legal status and eventual citizenship to the illegals
If you cannot show us, then maybe Bush isn't the straight-shooter your vanity purports.
Schieffer: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President.
I got more e-mail this week on this question than any other question. And it is about immigration.
I'm told that at least 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day. Some people believe this is a security issue, as you know. Some believe it's an economic issue. Some see it as a human-rights issue.
How do you see it? And what we need to do about it?
Bush: I see it as a serious problem. I see it as a security issue, I see it as an economic issue, and I see it as a human-rights issue.
We're increasing the border security of the United States. We've got 1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border.
We're using new equipment. We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across.
And we'll continue to do so over the next four years. It's a subject I'm very familiar with. After all, I was a border governor for a while.
Many people are coming to this country for economic reasons. They're coming here to work. If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico, for example, or make $5 here in America, $5.15, you're going to come here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food on the table for your families. And that's what's happening.
And so in order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs.
That has the benefit of making sure our employers aren't breaking the law as they try to fill their workforce needs. It makes sure that the people coming across the border are humanely treated, that they're not kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and forth to see their families. See, the card, it'll have a period of time attached to it.
It also means it takes pressure off the border. If somebody is coming here to work with a card, it means they're not going to have to sneak across the border. It means our border patrol will be more likely to be able to focus on doing their job.
Now, it's very important for our citizens to also know that I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in line.
Bush: If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too.
And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported amnesty for illegal aliens.
Schieffer: Time's up.
Senator?
Kerry: Let me just answer one part of the last question quickly, and then I'll come to immigration.
The American middle class family isn't making it right now, Bob. And what the president said about the tax cuts has been wiped out by the increase in health care, the increase in gasoline, the increase in tuitions, the increase in prescription drugs.
The fact is, the take home pay of a typical American family as a share of national income is lower than it's been since 1929. And the take home pay of the richest .1 percent of Americans is the highest it's been since 1928.
Under President Bush, the middle class has seen their tax burden go up and the wealthiest's tax burden has gone down. Now that's wrong.
Now with respect to immigration reform, the president broke his promise on immigration reform. He said he would reform it. Four years later he is now promising another plan.
Here's what I'll do: Number one, the borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11. The fact is, we haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will.
Secondly, we need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's not going to solve the problem.
The second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring. It's against the law in the United States to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly.
And thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.
Schieffer: Do you want to respond, Mr. President?
Bush: Well, to say that the borders are not as protected as they were prior to September the 11th shows he doesn't know the borders. They're much better protected today than they were when I was the governor of Texas.
We have much more manpower and much more equipment there.
He just doesn't understand how the borders work, evidently, to say that. That is an outrageous claim.
And we'll continue to protect our borders. We're continuing to increase manpower and equipment.
Schieffer: Senator?
Kerry: Four thousand people a day are coming across the border.
The fact is that we now have people from the Middle East, allegedly, coming across the border.
And we're not doing what we ought to do in terms of the technology. We have iris-identification technology. We have thumbprint, fingerprint technology today. We can know who the people are, that they're really the people they say they are when the cross the border.
We could speed it up. There are huge delays.
The fact is our borders are not as secure as they ought to be, and I'll make them secure.
Schieffer: Next question to you, Senator Kerry.
If these people have lived among us for years and their only crime was to sneak into the country, then I am able to give them the benefit of the doubt and give them a path to citizenship.
We already grant good behavior time-off for criminals, we grant homestead privileges to homeowners, we grant right of redemption to homeowners, we grant amnesty to citizens through the Statutue of Limitations, etc.
I'm sure you broke the law while driving at one time or another. Should you ever be allowed to drive once you have been given a speeding ticket? That's about the equivalent punishment for crossing the border illegally. A free meal and a bus ride home.
Now if you want to make the case that crossing that border is on the same par as murder, rape, and armed robbery then perhaps you are right and all illegals should be rounded up like Elian Gonzales at gunpoint. But don't forget that under our Constitution, each and every one of the 12 million will need a court date to plead their case. So if we can dispense justice at one minute per case it will only take about 96 years to clear the backlog. Good luck with that.
I knew that Dubya wasn't the best for the job, but he was certainly the best in the running. Unfortunately, the dilution of our national sovereignty is one of his desires.
Well I have to think thats going to be part of a bill in the final form
"They tried to shove NAFTA, etc. down the southern hemisphere's throat and it didn't work. So import the whole bunch up here willy nilly, turn them all into Americans. They kept the full plan more or less under wraps because the other countries would be insulted. It's not pleasant to read in the papers that you're a third world country, which they are. So rather than have an honest dialogue with the US voters, he chose up sides and we lost. There's nothing more dangerous than a fanatic, and for Bush and his pals in the CFR, that's what this is, a belief that borders on fanaticism. The dems have other aims in mind, but intend to go down the same road. Only faster"
Now do you really think George Bush really believes this. This makes as much sense as all the MAsonic stuff thats been on the history channel. Bush is a Patroit.
This thread isn't about whether illegals deserve amnesty or not (they don't).
It is about whether George Bush is consistent about his plans for amnesty.
I say that Bush mislead the voters in the 2004 debates because he stated he was in favor of a temporary guest worker card. Now he favors "a path to citizenship", and is using the words of KERRY in the debate.
Please review the transcript I just posted. Where does he say he is going to legalize 12 million illegals?
Actually, there was a Path to Citizenship discussed at the third Bush-Kerry debate:
We need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.
OF course these comments listed are not all the comments made on the issue. I suspect there is more
There's nothing in the Senate's proposal (so far) which requires that any of the 12-15 million currently here have to go home & 'get in line'. If the president signs it without such a requirement I suppose we can legitimately accuse him of knowingly telling a falsehood.
Is this going to be the latest spin on why we shouldn't be upset by Bush's love of amnesty? Sorry, sticking to your word is not inherently honorable when you're leading the nation toward darkness.
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