Posted on 03/06/2006 7:13:02 AM PST by CarrotAndStick
Jerusalem, March 6: Against the backdrop of the recent Indo-US nuclear deal, the Israeli defence industry has expressed concern that the United States' tightening security ties with India will adversely affect their prospects in one of their key markets.
"The Americans understood Israel is taking a huge market away from them. It took them time to respond, but they eventually did," a source at Israel's defence industries told local daily 'Yediot Ahronoth'.
"From now on it will be much harder to carry out arms deals in India," the source added. "The US plans on turning India into one of its arms industries' main export markets following the recent nuclear deal between the two countries during President Bush's visit to India," the report said.
India had emerged as the single largest purchaser of Israeli defence systems capping the Phalcon deal worth $1 billion.
I beg to differ on the relative dependency of NATO and European allies. Europe chronically underspends on defense with the US footing the lion's share in NATO and for their general defense including our troops stationed there, R&D and hardware. In dollars it dwarfs what we give Israel.
The real difference is that Israel is labelled "foreign aid" and European defense is buried in our defense budget.
Our spending on European defense enables their nanny socialist states. In contrast Israel spends about 10% of GNP on defense. It is a small country with a big defense budget. Just to throw this into the mix, Taiwan underspends on defense not even buying what the US offers them. Makes them less sympathetic in my book.
The point either way is that India is of course a valuable ally to the US now. The slurs about Israel by Indcons were just that - slurs from anti-Israel/Semitic "propaganda press," to use your phrase.
Frankly I have my doubts about the truth of this story.
I usually support Israel, but they can go pound sand on this issue.
That is simply not true based on the crew member's accounts, including the Captain of the ship.
From a report based on the crew members' eyewitness accounts:
At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty’s crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.16 Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm. 17
During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request assistance due to intense communications jamming 18 The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas, and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders.
After the Israeli fighter aircraft completed their attacks, three Israeli torpedo boats arrived and began a surface attack about 35 minutes after the start of the air attack. The torpedo boats launched a total of five torpedoes, one of which struck the side of USS Liberty, opposite the ship’s research spaces. 20 Twenty-six Americans, in addition to the eight who had been killed in the earlier air attacks, were killed as a result of this explosion.
Following their torpedo attack, the torpedo boats moved up and down the length of the ship (both the port and starboard sides), continuing their attack, raking the ship with cannon and machine gun fire.21 In Malta, crewmen were later assigned the task of counting all of the holes in the ship that were the size of a man’s hand or larger. They found a total of 861 such holes, in addition to “thousands” of .50 caliber machine gun holes.
Survivors report that the torpedo boat crews swept the decks of USS Liberty with continuous machine gun fire, targeting communications equipment and any crewmembers who ventured above decks.22
Damage control firefighters, who had already risked their lives merely by appearing on deck, had to abandon their efforts because their fire hoses had been shredded by machine gun fire.23
Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order “prepare to abandon ship.”24 This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched.25
The defenseless crew, initially unable to report their plight or summon assistance and with only themselves to rely upon, fought heroically to save themselves and their ship. In recognition of their effort in this single action, they were ultimately awarded, collectively, one Medal of Ho nor, two Navy Crosses, eleven Silver Stars, twenty Bronze Stars (with “V” device), nine Navy Commendation Medals, and two hundred and four Purple Hearts. In addition, the ship was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation.
By patching together different systems, the ship’s radio operators had ultimately been able to send a brief distress message that was received and acknowledged by United States Sixth Fleet forces present in the Mediterranean.26 Upon receipt of that message the aircraft carriers USS Saratoga and USS America each launched aircraft to come to the aid of USS Liberty.27 The reported attacking aircraft were declared hostile and the rescue aircraft were authorized to destroy them upon arrival.28 The rules of engagement, authorizing destruction of the attackers, were transmitted to the rescue aircraft “in the clear” (i.e., they were not encrypted).
Shortly after the Sixth Fleet transmission of the rules of engagement to its dispatched rescue aircraft, the Israeli torpedo boats suddenly broke off their attack and transmitted messages asking if USS Liberty required assistance.29 At the same time, anIsraeli naval officer notified the US Naval Attaché at the American Embassy in Tel Aviv that Israeli forces had mistakenly attacked a United States Navy ship and apologized. The Naval Attaché notified the United States Sixth Fleet30 and the rescue aircraft were recalled before they arrived at the scene of the attack.31
At about the same time as the cessation of the torpedo boat attack, Israeli attack helicopters arrived over the ship.32 Survivors report that the helicopters were packed with men in combat battle dress. The Captain of USS Liberty gave the order to “prepare to repel boarders”33 but the helicopters departed without attempting to land their troops.34
2. Had the US not lied about withdrawing ships, this could not have occured.
The USS Liberty was in international waters. At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing “a US Navy cargo type ship,” just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings “GTR-5”.11 This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.12
Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty’s position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel. A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.13
At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Janes’ Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.14
At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty’s crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.16 Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm. 17
During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request assistance due to intense communications jamming. In sum, the Israelis knew where the ship was and that it belonged to the US.
3. Had the US agreed to Israel's request for a Naval Liason, the accident could have been avoided
It was not an accident.
A summary based upon the dust cover summary from Asault on the Liberty by James M. Ennes, Jr. Jim was an officer on the bridge when the attack started and is author of Assault on the Liberty (Random House 1980; Ballantine 1986; Reintree Press 2003, 2004) which tells the story
In June 1967, jet aircraft and motor torpedo boats of Israel brutally assaulted an American naval vessel, USS Liberty, in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula in the Mediterranean Sea. The attack was preceded by more than six hours of intense low-level surveillance by Israeli photo-reconnaissance aircraft, which buzzed the intelligence ship thirteen times, sometimes flying as low as 200 feet directly overhead. The reconnaissance pilots were heard by intercept operators in Germany and in Lebanon reporting to their headquarters that they could see an American flag and men sunbathing on deck.
The carefully orchestrated assault that followed was initiated by high-performance jet aircraft, was followed up by slower and more maneuverable jets carrying napalm, and was finally turned over to lethal torpedo boats which fired five torpedoes. Four missed. The one torpedo that hit the ship blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side.
The attack lasted more than two hours -- killing 34 Americans and wounding 172 others -- and inflicted 821 rocket and machine-gun holes. And when the Liberty stubbornly remained afloat despite her damage, Israeli forces machine-gunned her life rafts and sent troop-carrying helicopters in to finish the job. US Air Force intercept operators heard Israeli jet being vector to "the American ship" which they were ordered to sink quickly. Those who have seen these transcripts insist that they leave no doubt that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship.
Before the ship arrived in the area, U.S. Sixth Fleet Commander Admiral William Martin promised to provide air support within ten minutes if an emergency arose. Yet when the ship did come under attack, the White House blocked any air rescue for more than 90 minutes. Officers on the bridge of the aircraft carrier Saratoga heard Liberty's radio operators calling for help while bombs burst in the background, but were forbidden to help. When Navy jet aircraft were finally authorized to come to the ship's aid, the Israeli government suddenly ended the attack and withdrew, claiming that the had mistaken the ship for an Egyptian horse transport named El Quseir. Only then did the identity of the assailants become known.
Details of the attack were hushed up in both countries. Israel claimed that her forces mistook USS Liberty for an Egyptian ship, and our government publicly accepted that excuse despite evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile, in top secret diplomatic mail, US Secretary of State Dean Rusk accused the Israelis of demonstrating "blatant disregard for human life" and said that the attack was no accident. Then our government downplayed the intensity of the surveillance and the severity of the attack, and imposed a news blackout to keep the official story under control. The official version is that the Liberty was reconnoitered only three times and then only from great distance. The American people were told that the air attack lasted only five minutes and that it was followed by a single torpedo and an immediate apology and offer of assistance.
The story has continued to fester for thirty-five years. During that time numerous senior members of the Lyndon Johnson administration, in office at the time, have come forward to say that the attack was no accident. These include former Secretary of State Dean Rusk; former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Tom Moorer; former NSA chief General Marshall Carter and his deputy, Dr. Lou Tordella; former White House Press Secretary George Christian; former US Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter who heard some of the radio conversations at the time, and others. Two former Israeli military officers have come forward to tell their inside stories confirming survivors' charges that the attack was no accident. Despite these reports, and despite charges by survivors that the official Israeli story is untrue, Congress has for thirty-five years refused to conduct a public investigation. The attack on the USS Liberty remains the only major maritime incident in all US history that has not been publicly investigated by the United States Congress.
Your posts keep getting zotted (twice on this thread already)...better watch out, ChiCom. Looks like you can't have a decent conversation with people without getting personal.
Let the ChiCom continue with its racist slurs...if it continues in the same vein, we know what's going to happen. Let it continue with its abuse, GK...it'll be fun in the long run. ;)
ChiComs unite with Islamists: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1591502/posts
Peace, FRiend....I have mentioned my warm feelings for Israel on this thread. If you don't believe me, take a look at my posting history prior to this thread.
I do have problems with Israel's support of the ChiComs though (and you can see, Dervish, that I am not the only one on FR). The ChiComs are the greatest threat to all democracies and that includes Israel too. The ChiComs (and their racist, sleeper lackeys) cannot be trusted. Period.
I hope USA, Israel, and India continue to develop their trade, military, and political relations. After all, these countries have much in common.
"I think it's very appropriate however to criticize Israel with respect to their arms sales, even necessary, and I don't see it as anti Israel or anti semitic."
I agree. I was not referring to anything you have written. Certainly Israeli sales to China are a legitimate US concern.
I am pointing out that Europeans in general get a free pass (including UK) when their behavior to US is worse than Israel's and their dependence is much greater too in terms of US dollars spent. Israel's dependence is greater in terms of need rather than dollar amount.
However the US has been known to manipulate that need. Some say that the recent tiff with Israel over sales to China which disappeared after Israel withdrew from Gaza was a manufactured one. The US has been known to delay spare parts sent to Israel too.
France had joint military operations with the Chinese on the eve of Taiwwan's election. That was stunning behavior on their part.
The difference is taht I don't hit that "abuse button" like you do, because you have this inferiority complex that needs to get help in order to debate something. Otherwise i could have your threads removed as well.
Speaking of which, you haven't answered ANY of my posts about India and the Nazi's. You claim they aren't connected, i showed you otherwise.
No no no. Unlike Indians which takes American jobs away, we don't do that. Our family CREATES JOBS in the US, instead of all these Indians taking them away overseas. That's the difference.
And we don't treat the land we live in the US like some third world sh*thole like the other Indian neighbors.
Oh, just so you know, and you probably know this, I am from Taiwan originally, hardly a third world sh*thole. In fact, Taiwan kicks Indian's ass economically any day of the week. It also has more olympic medals than India gets.
Don't lie....you are a ChiCom troll and that's what you'll remain.
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