Posted on 02/03/2006 1:39:00 PM PST by Golden Eagle
I'll try to remember, but do you have a comment re: the free software for Russia? Should it be allowed at all, or is there any level at which point it should be stopped?
Potential adversaries? Who isn't a potential adversary?
It's not as if IBM were giving nuclear secrets or cutting-edge decryption technology to Russia. This is basic Operating System, Web Server and Database technology. It's busieness software. Do you really think the basic building blocks for good business software are a national security threat to the US?
I see it as the exact opposite. A stronger Russian economy, while headed in the direction of democracy and away from communism, is a very Good Thing for national security! If we can help them succeed as a democratic nation, we have about as much to fear from Russia as we do from Germany.
There is nothing at all to worry about.
Obviously our allies. They don't have nuclear missles pointed at us. Potential adversaries do, and present a serious threat.
A stronger Russian economy, while headed in the direction of democracy and away from communism, is a very Good Thing for national security! If we can help them succeed as a democratic nation, we have about as much to fear from Russia as we do from Germany.
If? All the reports I see say they're moving back away from Democracy. Putin was elected? When is the next election then? Is not pointing their nuclear missles at us going to be on that ballot?
Reagan choked them off, which is my position. Leave them on their knees, and have them accept capitalism fully on their own, simply because they have no other choice. Then you SELL them products, not give them to them for free.
So then, IBM could legally sell it's software, Even if it was proprietary, to almost anyone they wished. You've just given yourself away, this isn't an open source issue at all.
You haven't been asked the obvious question, so here we go: IF the software in question is Open Source, WHAT THEN prevents the Russians or anyone else from downloading and using it, whether IBM approves or not?
Still waiting to see the harm here.
Oh, you meant open source?
Basically nothing, which is why "open source" is diametrically opposed to export control. IF technology is going to be allowed to transfer to Russia AT ALL, which I don't support, there should at least be a significant charge in dollars for it.
EXPORT CONTROL??? We're a Capitalist society, You must have the US confused with the Old Soviet Union. What you're proposing is the same central control that Marxism used.
What then is to prevent the Russians (who DO NOT have nuclear missles pointed at us BTW), or anyone else from reverse engineering proprietary software as the Chinese who Microsoft is dealing with presetly, have done? The next proprietary agreement that the Chinese keep will be the first. YET, Microsoft continues to deal with them, KNOWING that proprietary agreements have not been historically kept by the Chinese.
yea that would be like ms selling the red chinese a peek at their code
Another big wrench in your argument is your baseless assumption that Open Source software is somehow all American. Most Open Source projects have developers from all over the world at work on them! How are you going to deny technology to Russia, when Russians may have helped develop it?
This doesn't apply in great degree to IBM, but you have started to talk Open Source in general.
You want to stuff a Genie into the bottle after it's already out, and neither the Genie nor the bottle belong to us! (USA)
He, he, beat you to it ;^)
Nothing but the law, which may not stop them, just like the law doesn't stop shoplifting. But you don't reward shoplifters with free products, you tighten your controls, and prosecute where possible. Conversely, open source = no control, i.e. no law.
The next proprietary agreement that the Chinese keep will be the first.
So your answer is GIVE it all to them, for FREE instead? Sorry, I don't normally use all caps, but since you do maybe you'll get the point.
Worse, it's being given away, instead. Amazing you can't distiguish between the two. Any reason for that?
No offense taken on the caps, use as you wish. i use them for expression and emphasis, contrary to 'convention'. Back to you on the rest of your post later.
IBM products aren't subject to U.S. law? What Genie is out of the bottle, our ablility to control U.S. exports, forever?
We obviously disagree on the long term technological landscape. I prefer one where the United States continues to dominate. You prefer, correct me if I'm wrong, one where the U.S. surrenders its lead to, uh, the U.N., or even worse, some "loseknit group of hackers on the net"?
Morally they are equivalent... Would the Rosenberg's have been less treasonous if they took money vs doing it for free?
What I find amazing is every time someone other than MS deals with the Chinese you crow about it but when its Microsoft you blow it off or give it a limp wrist-ed 'I wish they did not do that'. Any reason for that?
Since you've already conceded that there is (virtually) no law involved in this issue, be it Open Source or Proprietary, your argument falls flat. It is not an Open Source issue.
On another front, For somebody who asserts a communist aura to Linux and Open Source in general, you certainly are sounding more and more like a Marxist, when you assert, as you have above that the creator of a given piece of software CANNOT do with that software as (s)he wishes, which would include liscensing it as Open Source. What other freedoms do you want to take away?
you know better than to ping me here Golden DoDo
But anyway, I suppose that if IBM made the Russians pay for the code, you wouldn't have a problem would you?
Oh well, at least Bill Gates is cooperating with the ChiComs right?
So you see no value in selling items, verses giving them away? You also don't see them as any sort of barrier to prevent rogue or despot regimes from accessing technology?
Microsoft has never been fined for violating export control, nor are they making new announcments about free technology for Russia. Remember in the past IBM has been fined for illegal exports of technology, yet today they are releasing PR items that that are outright giddy.
IBM Delivers Free Software and Technical Resources to Russia
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/19197.wss
To Russia From IBM: A Hand With Open Source Development
http://www.techweb.com/headlines_week/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=178601922
Thanks to Clinton, I pointed out, but you ignored.
you certainly are sounding more and more like a Marxist
Sure I am. While I stand here speaking out against it.
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