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There's method in the Mahdi madness of Iran's president
Telegraph.uk ^ | January 14, 2006 | Charles Moore

Posted on 01/14/2006 10:03:48 AM PST by billorites

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1 posted on 01/14/2006 10:03:50 AM PST by billorites
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To: billorites

This guy ain't the Lamb, though. He only thinks he is.


2 posted on 01/14/2006 10:06:57 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: billorites
"......the supposedly intransigent George Bush has actually been so accommodating to European sensibilities that he has delegated the policy on Iran to Europe. This has produced the current disaster....."

I really don't know what it is with us Europeans - we seem to have it in out psyche to believe that anyone and everyone is susceptible to reason. That everyone at base is a jolly good chap and if only dictators, and fascist mullahs would see sense everything would be OK.... If we are deluded like that (along with your dear Democrats) why trust us with Iran - it was always going to end in tears. Negotiate? Tea anyone?
3 posted on 01/14/2006 10:11:38 AM PST by vimto (Life isn't a dry run)
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To: billorites
What can we do? There may be sanctions and other forms of isolation that would work.

Oh, my. Sanctions. That would certainly work.

Even better, how about more talk, which Europe is so good at? That would please everyone, at least until the nuclear bombs start going off.

4 posted on 01/14/2006 10:13:03 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: billorites

Sanity from a Euro?

Wow, at least some of thm have it figured out.

Cheers,

knewshound


5 posted on 01/14/2006 10:19:16 AM PST by knews_hound (Now with two handed typing !)
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To: billorites
With respect to Iran: I was wondering if all the statements about nuclear weapons from Iran is designed to keep the US from noticing what Iran is doing in Iraq. We are dealing with cunning devils and obvious moves may not be the ones which we need to watch.

Also, as an old Internet user, I clearly recall that Iran was supposed to have bought 4 land mobile ICBMs from the old Soviet Union when it dissolved together with the technicians to maintain and operate them. The CIA had pics if I recall properly. One can guess the targets for 4 ICBMs. Any recollections.
6 posted on 01/14/2006 10:19:24 AM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends again)
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To: vimto
If we are deluded like that (along with your dear Democrats) why trust us with Iran - it was always going to end in tears. Negotiate? Tea anyone?
.
Well, perhaps we just had our hands a bit full with other world despots and demons we cowboys have unjustly and illegally and precipitously roped over the past 5 years.

Not to mention the EU countries are up to their eyeballs in business deals with an Iran we have almost singly officially sanctioned for the past 25 years. Surely you had the contacts to engage in meaningful diplomacy with those "Iranian moderates" the EU, the UN and our own Foggy Bottom keep digging through the manure pile of Iranian politics to find?

Besides, at least in the foreseeable future, Europe is going to be within range of Iranian nuke-armed missiles commanded from probably German engineered C3 links. Not us. How's that going to work for you?

Tea sounds good. No lemon.
7 posted on 01/14/2006 10:27:58 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: vimto

40 years of endless negotiations for "an ever closer union", where everyone had to follow certain rules (except keep your budget in line, apparently), has trained a generation of European diplomats to focus on process rather than results.

In reading the piece, I couldn't help thinking about Monty Python's "holy hand grenade."

Seriously, the Left in the US is pretty soon going to start claiming GWB "let" the Iranians have a nuclear weapon through inaction. We conservatives have to make a pre-emptive strike, by demonstrating that Euro-style "patient negotiations" didn't work with Iran, and wouldn't have worked in Iraq either.


8 posted on 01/14/2006 10:32:24 AM PST by happyathome
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To: billorites
"Promised One". This was a reference to the strong Shi'ite belief in a Mahdi, or Hidden Messenger, who will reappear in the world to rule it aright.

I don't think the Muslim/Arab world will buy a Persian Mahdi.

If Mr Ahmadinejad can be packaged to Europe as a religious nut maybe they will do something.

9 posted on 01/14/2006 10:42:55 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: vimto
President Bush really had no choice but to let Europe lead in the discussions with Iran, since America is the Great Satan and our embassy in Tehran has never been returned.

And discussions were the only option, since Europe and Russia didn't want to play the UN card.

Now it finally appears that Europe has reached the same conclusion that America did some time ago, which is that Iran is not dealing in good faith and discussions will lead nowhere.

That's a good thing, because Europe was certainly concerned that America was attempting to dictate global foreign policy. So Europe got its chance to lead and succeed.

Now that it's failed to pull off that miracle, perhaps America and Europe, perhaps joined by Russia, can agree to work together at the UN to increase pressure on Iran.

Time is short, though. It's now or never to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. Once they have it, the power shifts dramatically.

10 posted on 01/14/2006 10:47:19 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Cicero

A UN resolution or two will save the day!


11 posted on 01/14/2006 10:55:09 AM PST by karnage
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To: vimto

That's an interesting comment. The british so imminently reasonable and proper, some behavio(u)r just doesn't compute to them...


12 posted on 01/14/2006 10:56:43 AM PST by The Worthless Miracle
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Dog Gone

The question is, why would the Russians suddenly start to cooperate, when they have been the ones chiefly responsible for giving Iran nuclear weapons and only recently offered them surface to air missiles to protect themselves?

Iran has mainly been doing the work of the French and the Russians ever since Jimmuh deposed the Shah and the French sent their old pal Khomeini back in.

Russia may act to delay matters further by referring this to the UN, but what kind of resolution will the Russians and the French allow in the Security Council?


14 posted on 01/14/2006 11:20:36 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
I think the Russians hoped it would play out that they would supply the fuel for a peaceful nuclear program while remaining the chief arms supplier to Iran for conventional weapons.

But even they can't actually want Iran with the Bomb, and that's where this is headed. When Iran turned down the Russian proposal it forced a reassessment in Moscow. I think Russia will allow a series of increasingly strong measures to pass the Council, including trade sanctions, in an effort to force Iran back to the Russian proposal.

We'll see.

15 posted on 01/14/2006 11:35:21 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Cicero
The question is, why would the Russians suddenly start to cooperate, when they have been the ones chiefly responsible for giving Iran nuclear weapons and only recently offered them surface to air missiles to protect themselves?

The only reason I can think of would be because of our going into Iraq with out permission from the UN. If we did it there we would have no problem doing it again and Russia knows it.

So the only reason for them to cooperate is to keep a foot in the door of Iran, to have a say in the Mid East. China is the real question, our going into Iran has even larger implications than it does for Russia.

16 posted on 01/14/2006 11:38:52 AM PST by Lady Heron
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To: billorites
Question to Europe:

Since Iran is in your back yard; why don't you clean up the dog poop?

17 posted on 01/14/2006 12:10:47 PM PST by Cobra64
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To: Lady Heron

Neither China nor Russia wants us with a foothold in Central Europe, true. But I can't think of a course of conduct more likely to draw us in than what they have pursued.

I doubt whether we have ambitions to occupy Iran, however, even for the short term. So maybe their best option would be to get rid of the mad mullahs and let us turn our attention elsewhere.

Both countries are within range of Iranian missiles, and subject to attacks by Muslim terrorists. I wish they would stop playing with fire.


18 posted on 01/14/2006 12:23:20 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

Central Asia, not Central Europe.

Duh.


19 posted on 01/14/2006 12:23:54 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: billorites
Ahmadinejad is simply repeating the standard Shi'ite doctrine about the Mahdi appearing at the end of time to kill all the nonmuslims, convert the rest, and rule over the earth in a shar'ia utopia for a while until the final trumpets sound.

But he is not alone. For decades Muslims have been flooded with propaganda that these are the End Times. Certainly thousands, perhaps millions of them believe it.

It is extremely dangerous to mix nuclear weapons with the belief that there is NO FUTURE.

The Sunnis have their own version of the Mahdi: instead of being the 12th Shi'ite Imam, he will be a restorer of the Caliphate, who will spread Islam world-wide.

For more information on Muslim millennialism, see here.

20 posted on 01/14/2006 9:44:52 PM PST by Dajjal
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