Posted on 01/11/2006 6:12:12 AM PST by mr_hammer
You told Congress you didn't want the BATFE, FBI and other federal agencies to go on fishing expeditions through your gun records. It appears that Congress may actually be listening!
(Snip)
I always thought that at least here in California - when you purchase a weapon, (rifle, pistol) - you have a two week waiting period as you go through the background checks.
30 days after that period, those records are "suppose" to be destroyed.
Is it that in other states there is a long term paper trail on weapons purchases or do I not understand what the system is here in the state?
Under Federal Law, your FFL (Federal Firearms License) dealer must keep a copy of your purchase paperwork (yellow form) FOREVER. If they go out of business, they must turn the paperwork over to the BATF. This is the same for all states, but individual states have laws regarding local background checks, permits and waiting periods.
Here in Indiana, you can pick up your firearm immediately after the NICS check is approved. A few years ago, a state CCW permit was enough to buy and go without state checks, but they changed that.
As for the background checks, the NCIS system was supposed to destroy approval data after 24 hours. Of course, the RATS decided that they should keep the data for longer in order to perform "audits" of the system's effectiveness. This amounted to a registration, of sorts.
I've always believed that records of guns purchased from a FFL dealer were filed away with my name, probably forever. But I never worried about it, given the quality and dedication of federal agency employees, these copies were probably lost a long time ago.
They should still be at the dealer.
Pray that he has the guts to have a "fire" if the need arises.
That's what I just heard.
Unfortunately, I haven't picked up any new toys in a year or so. But there's some interesting stuff being released, like the new PS90, and other cool stuff due out later this year.
That's the problem, whether the the government has the records, or the FFL, those records are there forever. In the future, if the anti-gun people get back in charge, they will just order that all FFLs turn in those sheets.
Make no mistake - there are no effective privacy protections for gun owners. This new law doesn't close that gap.
If you purchase two or more firearms from a single dealer within a weeks time, they are required to fill out a form which identifies the purchaser and contains the serial numbers of the firearms and fax it to that BATF.
If that concerns you. Don't buy multiple firearms at the same time from the same dealer.
I strongly support the rights of gun owners, but I believe that the GOA is not only wrong on this but they appear to be intentionally misleading people in their efforts to fight the Patriot Act.
I started writing my representatives to support them after reading their press release that this could be used to infringe on my gun rights. People suggested on this forum that I write a more personalized letter than just using the GOA template, so I went and read the bill so I could argue my point in such a letter.
I found that I simply couldn't argue that point from the bill.
I don't like being lied to.
I support the patriot act, and after reading it I support what that bill does.
I no longer support the GOA and will not support them until the people who made the decision to mislead their supporters resign.
Ok, where are we being mis-lead?
Please vote against the current version of the PATRIOT reauthorization
bill (HR 3199) because it would extend provisions which the FBI claims
would allow it to seize 4473 forms, without the approval of any judge.
This runs contrary to the protections that were gained in the Firearms
Owners Protection Act of 1986, when it prohibited the establishment of any
registration system with respect to firearms [see 18 USC 926(a)(3)]. It
is also significant to note that the law bans inspections of gun dealers
records, excluding four, narrowly tailored exceptions [18 USC
923(g)(1)(b)]. Those exceptions are absent with regard to the FBI's
current practice of soliciting 4473 forms under the PATRIOT Act.
You are certainly familiar with the rule of construction that deems more
recent legislation to trump older legislation when there is a clear
conflict between the two. The protections that were won during the
McClure-Volkmer battle took years to achieve, and it would be a shame to
see those protections superseded by another enactment of gun control --
all in the vain hope that gun owners' purchase records can somehow help
authorities curb terrorism. (Gun registration certainly hasn't worked to
curb crime in any of the states or localities that have implemented it.)
It is imperative that H.R. 3199 be amended to protect gun owner rights.
Please vote against cloture on H.R. 3199, unless gun records are removed
from the records which can be demanded under Section 215 of the PATRIOT
Act -- a move which would return the McClure-Volkmer protections as the
operative law concerning when and where gun records can be demanded.
That is nonsense.
One other thought, why are small firearms even being questioned? The M.O. of terrorist as a major threat to our security are not found in the inventories of local gun shops. A more reasonable or honest question is. What national security threat does small center firearms really represent. I say none!
I fear a terrorist with a nuke or chemicals coming across are un-fenced southern border more than a handfull running around with a few hunting rifles.
www.gunowners.org
Jan 2006
Your Efforts Have Scored An Enormous Pro-gun Victory In Congress
-- Please keep up the pressure
Gun Owners of America
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
Springfield, VA 22151
(703)321-8585
Tuesday, January 10, 2006
You told Congress you didn't want the BATFE, FBI and other federal agencies to go on fishing expeditions through your gun records. It appears that Congress may actually be listening!
By a vote of 52-47, the Senate failed to shut down the liberal/conservative filibuster of H.R. 3199 -- including a provision which would allow BATFE to goosestep through your gun records (4473's, etc.) WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF ANY COURT. Under the Senate rules, 60 votes would have been needed to end the filibuster on this PATRIOT Act reauthorization.
Instead, this so-called "terrorism" legislation -- some of which is relatively non-controversial -- was extended until February 3 in order to allow negotiations to continue.
You might remember that 16 provisions of the PATRIOT Act were set to expire on New Year's Day. To prevent this, Congress extended the deadline for five weeks, into early February. Even if these 16 provisions expire, the underlying PATRIOT Act will still remain in force. GOA is second to none in its desire to protect this nation's security and prevent terrorists from attacking American citizens.
But we believe the best way to do this is to abide by the Constitution. Freedom works. The Second Amendment works. Guns in the hands of airline pilots on 9-11 would have prevented the terrorist hijackings that day. Restricting liberty only makes us less safe... and letting the BATFE and other federal agencies to conduct unlimited warrantless searches of firearms purchase records is not going to make us safer.
Now, there've been some interesting developments over the last couple of days.
At least one Senate office has suggested that negotiators may be willing to "deal" in order to completely exempt 4473's and other gun records from federal agents' warrantless search powers. Under this deal -- which would be total victory for gun owners -- the provisions of the pro-gun McClure-Volkmer Firearms Owners Protection Act would govern what gun records BATFE can and can't see.
We will continue working to exempt gun records from the "snooping" provisions of H.R. 3199. But we're asking you to strengthen our hand by continuing to pressure Congress. Since Gun Owners of America is fighting a lonely battle to exempt gun records from the clause of the PATRIOT Act, your activism is crucial. While you might want to ask the other groups what they're doing to fight these provisions, we definitely need you to contact the Congress right now.
ACTION: Please write your senators. Urge them to insist that pro-gun language be inserted into H.R. 3199 which ensures that BATFE is prohibited from conducting unlimited warrantless searches of firearms purchase records. The vote on this legislation will take place in less than one month. Negotiations on this bill are occurring right now. It's imperative that you contact your Senators right away!
You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators a pre-written e-mail message such as the one below.
Or, you can call your Senators toll-free at 877-762-8762.
--- Pre-written letter ---
Dear Senator:
H.R. 3199 would, in its current form, allow BATFE -- and other federal agencies -- to go on virtually unlimited fishing expeditions through gun records without the approval of any court.
As a supporter of Second Amendment rights, I can tell you that this is THE provision in this act which has gun owners extremely upset. So before you vote for cloture, please insist that language is inserted to protect 4473's and other gun records from BATFE snooping.
I would like to hear what you intend to do. Thank you.
Sincerely,
That will never happen here. Even in the USSR private citizens could hunt. Switzerland even ISSUES high powered rifles and they are certainly registered. Cubans are armed. Even in Saddam's Iraq AK47s were everywhere and his government kept track of everything.
Such a blanket statement is demonstrably false.
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