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Bush Extends Greetings To All Celebrating Kwanzaa
US Dept of State ^ | December 19, 2005 | George W. Bush

Posted on 12/28/2005 11:40:33 AM PST by presidio9

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To: Clara Lou
The President's statement does no such thing. Go read it.

But a Presidential acknowledgment such as this would seem to lends credibility to it. If this wasn't the purpose in this case, what would it be?

101 posted on 12/28/2005 4:52:29 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Clara Lou
extol: to praise highly : GLORIFY [from Webster's dictionary] You have exaggerated. The President's statement does no such thing. Go read it.

You're entitled to your opinion. You've certainly stated it often enough over the past few days that you feel that Bush did no wrong in mentioning Kwanzaa. I think that the vast majority of FReepers here would disagree with you, but you can say whatever damned crazy thing that comes to your mind and that you bang out on your keyboard. However, your opinion not withstanding, Bush was extolling the virtues of Kwanzaa when he gave it such unworthy praise and recognition.

102 posted on 12/28/2005 4:53:40 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: presidio9
Omygosh! Kwanzaa is this week???

Shoot. And I haven't bought a single thing for anyone.

Oh, well. Try again next year.

103 posted on 12/28/2005 4:54:48 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Because its observants are American citizens just like you are, and he is their president just like he is yours.

So are the Klansmen who celebrate Klanzaa (invented holiday, just like Kwanzaa, to prove my point). Would you defend him in recognizing a holiday such as Klanzaa? No difference between the two.

104 posted on 12/28/2005 4:55:13 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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Comment #105 Removed by Moderator

To: presidio9

P.C. Crap.


106 posted on 12/28/2005 4:58:44 PM PST by jw777
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Comment #107 Removed by Moderator

To: Spiff

Do we, or do we not have freedom of religion in this country?

Speaking of invented religions...let's talk about Utah.


108 posted on 12/28/2005 5:01:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Do we, or do we not have freedom of religion in this country? Speaking of invented religions...let's talk about Utah.

Wait? Are you saying that Kwanzaa is a religion? Because, in fact, it is. See Kawaida.

So, why is it being taught and celebrated in so many of our schools?

109 posted on 12/28/2005 5:03:06 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: presidio9
Bush Extends Greetings To All Celebrating Kwanzaa


110 posted on 12/28/2005 5:04:22 PM PST by reagan_fanatic (Darwinism is a belief in the meaninglessness of existence - R. Kirk)
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To: Spiff
"So are the Klansmen who celebrate Klanzaa (invented holiday"

Invented by you apparently...unless you have information not available on the Internet on the Klan's rituals and celebrations of Klanzaa.

111 posted on 12/28/2005 5:05:18 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Do we, or do we not have freedom of religion in this country?

And, by the way, you failed to answer my question about the appropriateness of the President recognizing Klanzaa - the fictitious KKK holiday. Why is that? Do you cede the point or are you just trying to change the subject and turn this Kwanzaa thread into a religious flameware about the predominant religion in Utah?

112 posted on 12/28/2005 5:05:49 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Invented by you apparently...unless you have information not available on the Internet on the Klan's rituals and celebrations of Klanzaa.

I said it was an invention used to prove a point. Stop deflecting and answer the question. Would it be appropriate for President Bush to recognize a holiday such as Klanzaa - or even Hitler's birthday - similarly to his recognition of Kwanzaa in light of your statement that he is the President of all Americans?

113 posted on 12/28/2005 5:07:13 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Jigsaw John
But a Presidential acknowledgment such as this would seem to lend credibility to it.
In my opinion, this is much ado about nothing. A written statement from the Press Office that no one cares about but a few deluded Kwanzaa celebrators and a few very dedicated FR Kwanzaa-haters isn't going to have much effect one way or the other. I'd just as soon the POTUS ignored Kwanzaa, but I can't see making a mountain out of a molehill because he didn't. Some of the posters here are pretty venomous about it--why? Why bother? It's the same people thread after thread, day after day. Some people are just happier badmouthing.
114 posted on 12/28/2005 5:10:49 PM PST by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: W Tannenbaum
Just another attack on our Culture...but this time from our so called "Conservative" President.
Ridiculous beyond words.
115 posted on 12/28/2005 5:12:58 PM PST by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: Clara Lou
But a Presidential acknowledgment such as this would seem to lend credibility to it. In my opinion, this is much ado about nothing.

You are probably correct. However it does seem that a Presidential acknowledgment such as this is met to lend credibility to this "holiday".

116 posted on 12/28/2005 5:13:20 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Spiff
First and foremost, there is no such thing as Klanzaa...so to carry on a discussion about what someone may do under a completely hypothetical situation is a load of garbage.

It's not me trying to turn this discussion into a religious flame war.

Simply stated.

By and in large, the observants of Kwanza (I know some) are not members of racial hate groups, and in spite of the fact that the history of the Kwanza creator may be filled with violence and hate, his sins do not fall on the observers, any more than children will be put to death for their fathers.

They are guilty of little more than celebrating a made up holiday.

As a matter of fact, my Kwanza observant friends observe Christmas.

Perhaps you should educate yourself in the meaning of Kawanza, for it is neither a religious or a political Holiday,and in no way seeks to replace Christmas.

117 posted on 12/28/2005 5:16:00 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff

By the way...words have meaning, so quit spreading misinformation.

Kwanza is not a holiday.


118 posted on 12/28/2005 5:17:11 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Clara Lou
In my opinion, this is much ado about nothing. A written statement from the Press Office that no one cares about but a few deluded Kwanzaa celebrators and a few very dedicated FR Kwanzaa-haters

Wrong. It is displayed prominanently on the White House website and is archived as an official presidential message. It is given equal billing with the President's Christmas message and his Hannukah message. Are you saying that those messages are just worthless statements that no one reads or cares about?

Why can't you just admit that the president was wrong in recognizing or mentioning Kwanzaa. I mean, you do as much when you say that you would have preferred that he ignored it. We agree! I wish he had ignored it. But it isn't a small thing. He is lending credibility and legitimacy to a fake holiday invented by a violent, sadistic thug to spread his virulent brand of racist black nationalism and Marxism. As I said to you before, either the President is pandering to the wrong crowd - one that he's never going to reach anyway - or he's simply ignorant about the origins and nature of Kwanzaa. Or both.

119 posted on 12/28/2005 5:21:56 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Jigsaw John

Why interpret it as his intention to "lend credibility" to Kwanzaa? Why not interpret it as his desire to acknowledge a Black holiday and thus avoid being called racist--which we know he's sensitivie about? Until the "extolling the virtues" comment made earlier, I really didn't realize how minimally laudatory to Kwanzaa itself the statement actually was. It's more laudatory of Black contributions to society than it is of the holiday.


120 posted on 12/28/2005 5:23:36 PM PST by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: presidio9

Someone needs to send the President a link to that article about the criminal background of the guy who started Kwaaza.


121 posted on 12/28/2005 5:25:46 PM PST by Eva
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To: Spiff
"...Hitler's birthday..."

THE HITLER CARD!!!!!

Kwanza is a peaceful celebration of one's heritage, how you compare it to a celebration of one of humanity's worst genocidal maniac is quite laughable.

Your comparison is known as a non-sequitur.

Let's examine your argument, and your fallacy, in reverse.

Is Christmas evil because Hitler celebrated it?

By the way...Adolph Hitler merged the German Protestant Church and the Third Reich together in 1933.

Does that make Adolph good, or the German Protestant Church bad?

122 posted on 12/28/2005 5:28:00 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
First and foremost, there is no such thing as Klanzaa...so to carry on a discussion about what someone may do under a completely hypothetical situation is a load of garbage. It's not me trying to turn this discussion into a religious flame war. Simply stated.

You refuse to answer the question because of the Klanzaa thing? You just refuse to accept your hypocrasy on the subject, so let me ask it differently. Would you similarly defend a presidential message sending "greetings" to and extolling the virtures of any sort of KKK holiday or possibly Hitler's birthday? I'm sure that many Muslims celebrate the 9/11 attacks as a holiday. Would it be OK if the President sent them a friendly little official presidential proclamation?

By and in large, the observants of Kwanza (I know some) are not members of racial hate groups, and in spite of the fact that the history of the Kwanza creator may be filled with violence and hate, his sins do not fall on the observers, any more than children will be put to death for their fathers. They are guilty of little more than celebrating a made up holiday. As a matter of fact, my Kwanza observant friends observe Christmas. Perhaps you should educate yourself in the meaning of Kawanza, for it is neither a religious or a political Holiday,and in no way seeks to replace Christmas.

I am quite educated on Kwanzaa, its origins, and its meanings as described by its founder and the official "keeper" of Kwanzaa, Ron Everett (aka. Maulana Karenga). In fact, I've considered writing a book on the subject given all of the research I've done and information I've gathered about Kwanzaa and the writings of its crazed founder. Most of what I've learned did, in fact, come from Everett himself. His own writings damn him far more than I ever could. Go check out a few library books and see for yourself.

Kwanzaa does, in fact, seek the replace Christmas. In fact, Kawaida - the pseudo-religious source of Kwanzaa - seeks to replace Christianity as Everett disdainfully considers Christianity and Judaism to be "spookism". His term, not mine. Kwanzaa and Kawaida are wholly incompatible with Christianity and Judaism. I hope your Kwanzaa celebrating suckers...er...friends are aware of that.

123 posted on 12/28/2005 5:29:25 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff

I think we do agree. It's the level of venom in your posts, thread after thread, day after day, that puts me off. There are many issues out there, and this particular one doesn't rank in the top 100.


124 posted on 12/28/2005 5:31:59 PM PST by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: presidio9

Absolutely disgusting


125 posted on 12/28/2005 5:33:11 PM PST by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

You are still deflecting and failing to answer my question. Would it be acceptable for the President - any President - to officially recognize through a laudatory proclamation a holiday such as one celebrated by the KKK or Nazis? YOU made the argument that the president is the president of all Americans and I factually pointed out that members of the KKK and some Nazis are also Americans. Are you ceding your point or are you going to continue to deflect into religious arguments about the predominant religion in the state of Utah, your queer invocation of Godwin's law, or Hitler's assocation with the German Protestant Church and Christmas? Just answer the question or admit that your point was wrong.


126 posted on 12/28/2005 5:33:13 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Parmenio
Merry Kwanzaa Freepers!

Thank you!

127 posted on 12/28/2005 5:34:02 PM PST by Jorge (Q)
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To: Clara Lou
Why interpret it as his intention to "lend credibility" to Kwanzaa? Why not interpret it as his desire to acknowledge a Black holiday and thus avoid being called racist

Well, I guess one could look at it in that respect.

128 posted on 12/28/2005 5:35:30 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Parmenio

right backatcha' yo!!!


129 posted on 12/28/2005 5:37:04 PM PST by Hand em their arse
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To: Clara Lou
I think we do agree. It's the level of venom in your posts, thread after thread, day after day, that puts me off. There are many issues out there, and this particular one doesn't rank in the top 100.

To you. Yet, every December I have to see otherwise intelligent people pretend that Kwanzaa is something beneficial or laudatory. You seem to be missing the point that Kwanzaa is intended to foment racial division among blacks against all other races. It is intended to promote black nationalism which is the establishment of a seperate black nation within America. It is intended to undermine the black community's predominant association with Christianity as Kwanzaa's founder dismisses Christian beliefs as "spookism". It is intended to foster Marxist thought within the black community. And given its 1960's black revolutionary roots, it was intended to cause a black nationalist revolution within America.

Maybe you don't understand the colors associated with Kwanzaa and black nationalism in general - Red, Green, and Black. Let me educate you:

This is from the Kwanzaa Info. Center run by a black nationalist organization:

Go here.

Red is for the Blood. Black is the Black People. Green is for the Land.

The Red, or the blood, stands as the top of all things. We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race. However, the bloodshed and sorrow will not last always. The Red significantly stands in our flag as a reminder of the truth of history, and that men must gain and keep their liberty, even at the risk of bloodshed.

The Black is in the middle. The Black man in this hemisphere has yet to obtain land which is represented by the Green. The acquisition of land is the highest and noblest aspiration for the Black man on this continent, since without land there can be no freedom, justice, independence, or equality.

Pledge
WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE RED, BLACK, AND GREEN, OUR FLAG, THE SYMBOL OF OUR ETERNAL STRUGGLE, AND TO THE LAND WE MUST OBTAIN; ONE NATION OF BLACK PEOPLE, WITH ONE GOD OF US ALL, TOTALLY UNITED IN THE STRUGGLE, FOR BLACK LOVE, BLACK FREEDOM, AND BLACK SELF-DETERMINATION.


130 posted on 12/28/2005 5:42:45 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Texas Eagle

"Omygosh! Kwanzaa is this week???"

"Shoot. And I haven't bought a single thing for anyone."



Just steal something for those on your list... i mean after all, it is "Kwanzaa"...


131 posted on 12/28/2005 5:45:42 PM PST by Hand em their arse
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To: presidio9

Bush has sunk to new lows by sucking up to the diversity-mongers. "Kwaanza" is a fake holiday created back in the '60s by a bunch of looney Afrocentrists.


132 posted on 12/28/2005 5:48:57 PM PST by Holden Magroin
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To: Clara Lou
Please review THIS PAGE.

The link I provided is to the position statements of the group called "The Organization Us". This is the same gang that Everett founded in the 60's, the same gang that lived a communal lifestyle as they practiced their bizarre brand of Marxism, the same gang that gunned down two rival gang members for heckling Everett during a speech in the UCLA student union about who would head the new Black Studies program there, the same gang from which came the two accomplices to Everett's sadistic torture crimes against the two young women. They've only slightly changed their name and their militant appearance, but the goals are the same nonetheless. Their PR effort makes them only slightly more palatable.

Review the statements on the link I provided and you will see just how detestable this organization and its views are. And these are the views that they wish to put front and center for all to read.

Now go to theOfficial Kwanzaa Website at www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org.

There you will see the logo from the US website:

You will also see the following statement:

First, Kwanzaa was created to reaffirm and restore our rootedness in African culture. It is, therefore, an expression of recovery and reconstruction of African culture which was being conducted in the general context of the Black Liberation Movement of the '60's and in the specific context of The Organization Us, the founding organization of Kwanzaa and the authoritative keeper of its tradition.

The views and history of US is inseperable from the Kwanzaa observance. They are the originators and official keepers of the Kwanzaa tradition. This is the holiday that you're defending and the holiday that Presidents Clinton and Bush gave official laudatory proclamations concerning.

I hope that this helps to further educate you about this detestable observance and helps you to begin to understand why some find Kwanzaa so objectionable.

133 posted on 12/28/2005 5:57:49 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff

Thanks for the links. CSU Longbeach has hired this man to spew his evil to students?? There's a scandal. It supports his effort to rewrite history? Ludicrous.


134 posted on 12/28/2005 6:13:06 PM PST by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: Spiff
Would it be acceptable for the President - any President - to officially recognize through a laudatory proclamation a holiday such as one celebrated by the KKK or Nazis?

I answered your question quite clearly; yours is a logical fallacy because the people celebrating Kwanzaa are neither Nazis nor Klansmen, so the two do not compare.

Your "question" is the basic equivalent to my saying that abortion should be outlawed because I don't believe in murdering the unborn, and you arguing that so should automobiles because children die in auto accidents.

it's not the same thing.

While the President is president of all Americans, Americans in general will not tolerate a holiday celebrated by people who advocate racial hatred and violence...Kawanza advocates neither, in spite of the actions of its "inventor", the celebration (not a holiday) is simply a celebration of heritage. So your objection to a Presidential remark to the celebrants of Kwanzaa is purely racially based, and motivated by some sort of basic problem within yourself.

These celebrants take nothing from you, they seek to take nothing from you, they force nothing on you, nor do they seek to force anything on you.

You have a problem.

135 posted on 12/28/2005 7:57:34 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff

Uh, there are several Latin American holidays celebrated in this country. The most significant ones that I can think of are Cinqo de Mayo, and Peurto Rican national day. The differnce here is that most descendants of slaves are robbed of any sense of national heritage. Not that Kwanzaa is the answer, but if blacks want some sort of heritage holiday, I won't deny them that. Personally, I am of Irish, Scottish, German, and American descent, and I don't celebrate any national holiday. But plenty of people do.

But that's not what I was talking about. You asked what great accomplishments Africa has produced in the last millenia. I think that's an ignorant question. Africa is imporverished culturally and economically because of geography, not because of any inherent superiority of those who settled America.


136 posted on 12/28/2005 7:58:45 PM PST by presidio9 (off the top of my head)
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To: Spiff
"Just steal something for those on your list... i mean after all, it is "Kwanzaa"..."

Tell me that this isn't about as racist a remark as you've ever seen in this forum.

137 posted on 12/28/2005 7:58:46 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: PokeyJoe
To something is a holiday is to say that something is a Holy Day.

Not true in this country. The words have the same root, but we do not consider President's day or Martin Luther King Day "Holy Days." The feast of the Assumption is a Holy Day. Yom Kippur is a Holy Day.

The Holiday-Holy Day connection is a lame justification liberal apologists have been using lately to explain the war against Christmas.

138 posted on 12/28/2005 8:01:30 PM PST by presidio9 (off the top of my head)
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To: Tijeras_Slim; Badray

Hey now.....I think I can celebrate Gunzaa!

Ping to GoodRay......


139 posted on 12/28/2005 8:03:27 PM PST by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: presidio9
I send greetings to those observing Kwanzaa.

Sounds like something from a frikkin' Coneheads movie.

140 posted on 12/28/2005 8:05:32 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: presidio9
"...the war against Christmas."

You mean the war against a business owner's right to free speech being led by people who just a decade or so ago where bitching about the over commercialization of Christmas, and now are upset about merchants decommercializing it?

141 posted on 12/28/2005 8:09:41 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Personally, I could care less about what business owners do. I have a problem when the ACLU sticks its nose into the business of school districts and municipalities based on a non-existant separation of church and state.
142 posted on 12/28/2005 8:13:19 PM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: CondorFlight

Bush just legitimatized it for time immemorial. Sometimes I really think... maybe he is stupid.


143 posted on 12/28/2005 8:13:27 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: Spiff

I thought McCaniac outlawed the celebration of torture last week ?:O)

At least the founder of this crap didn't make his victims wear their panties on their heads ......


144 posted on 12/28/2005 8:13:47 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: presidio9

I want a distinct separation of Church and State...don't you?

Do you advocate public school teachers teaching your kids religion?

Eliminating Christmas altogether from schools and the public square is absurd, so I am with you on that.


145 posted on 12/28/2005 8:15:59 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Clara Lou

That's a lame defense of this stupid P.C. move by the President.

Reagan? In your dreams. He struggled with signing the King Observance into law.


146 posted on 12/28/2005 8:20:49 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I want a distinct separation of Church and State...don't you?

Then get busy with that Ammendment campaign. It's not in our Constitution.

I advocate very little "public" anything. I went to Jesuit schools, and so will my kids. That being said, no, I don't think public schools should teach religion. But only for the same reason that I don't trust the goverment to teach my kids anything else.

147 posted on 12/28/2005 8:22:16 PM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9

You just contradicted yourself.


148 posted on 12/28/2005 8:23:30 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

How do you figure? My point is not that public schools are not permitted to teach religion. It is that they have already demonstrated their incompetance.


149 posted on 12/28/2005 8:29:09 PM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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To: presidio9

You believe that public schools should demonstrate a competence in religious teachings?


150 posted on 12/28/2005 8:38:20 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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