Gun-permit secrecy attacked

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel/WTMJ TV ^ | 12/12/2005 | MIKE JOHNSON

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Without public access to the names of people who would be allowed to carry concealed weapons, it would be nearly impossible to tell whether the law is working as intended and make sure the permits wind up solely in the hands of upstanding citizens, officials of government watchdog groups said Friday. The Wisconsin Legislature is on the brink of passing a bill that would allow people to carry concealed weapons and, if it becomes law, the names of permit holders would be kept secret to the general public. "We know who is licensed to drive cars. We know who is licensed to drive school buses and we know who is licensed to cut our hair," said Lucy Dalglish, the executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. "It is impossible for the public to engage in any meaningful oversight when the records are off the books." Holding government accountable for the law would be impossible if the records aren't open, added Douglas E. Lee, a legal correspondent with the national First Amendment Center. There would be no need for public records laws "if we could rely on public officials to do the right thing," said Lee, an attorney in Dixon, Ill. "The whole idea of democracy is to allow that public check . . . to confirm people are doing what they are supposed to be doing and that legislation has its desired effect." Wisconsin's move to keep permit holder records secret is "one more in a number of legislative efforts increasing the amount of confidentiality" across the nation as the "pendulum slowly swings" away from greater openness in government, he added.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Wisconsin is a joke. I'm not signing up for a stupid permit that'll be abused by corrupt politicians and law-enforcement and neither should law-abiding WI residents.

[goldstategop]

Pure Barbara Streisand. The MSM's interest in all this is not the public's right to know but to portray law-abiding gun owners as dangerous nutcases who can't be trusted with a gun. Don't tell me they aren't biased. The press isn't exactly a virgin when it comes to the RKBA.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[MediaMole]

The bill's sponsors are trying to keep the records confidential because the media in other states have published the names of CCW holders.

[Thunder90]

Keeping the records secret is the best defence against robbery for everyone.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Washington, D.C.-based Violence Policy Center, points to Texas as a state where the concealed carry law isn't working. A study that the non-profit center, which works to curb violence, conducted showed that "basically concealed carry permit holders were not stopping crimes, they were committing crimes," Rand said.

Any Texas FReepers want to debunk this B.S.?

[RTINSC]

The only person who should know if you are carrying is the perp who poses a threat to your safety.

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

Seems to me that, if people don't rob and murder people with private property like guns, knives and forks, why should the government even be prying into the matter?

Seems to me that a bigger concern for these legislators is PROSECUTION for those involved in crime, weapons or not.

Seems to me that, infringing on Second Amendment rights IS a civil rights crime.

Mr. Russ-ian Feingold, care to comment?

[Just Lori]

concealed carry permit holders were not stopping crimes, they were committing crimes," Rand said.

That makes just as much sense as anything else the liberal nanny-staters are saying these days.

[Tzimisce]

I thought we had a right to privacy???

What happened - women have it in abortion cases....

[jess35]

The purpose of a concealed carry permit isn't to stop crime, it's for self protection. Kristen is a moron.

[Anti-Bubba182]

"Without public access to the names of people who would be allowed to carry concealed weapons, it would be nearly impossible to tell whether the law is working as intended and make sure the permits wind up solely in the hands of upstanding citizens, officials of government watchdog groups said Friday."

Crap! What they really meant to say.

Without public access to the names of people who would be allowed to carry concealed weapons, it would be nearly impossible to Publish a list of those holding concealed carry permits so they can be more effectively harrassed, officials of government watchdog groups said Friday.

[Prime Choice]

Without public access to the names of people who would be allowed to carry concealed weapons, it would be nearly impossible to tell whether the law is working as intended and make sure the permits wind up solely in the hands of upstanding citizens, officials of government watchdog groups said Friday.

Translation: "government watchdog groups" == anti-gun wingnuts.

Translation: "without public access" == the Leftists fear that their criminal friends will find their work too hazardous without knowing who's packing and who's not.

Translation: "nearly impossible to tell whether the law is working as intended" == the Leftists don't want the sudden drop in crime to be seen for what it is: the direct result of arming law-abiding citizens in such a way that the criminals don't know who can fight back.

In short, same old Leftist pro-criminal crap.

[Cobra64]

""The whole idea of democracy is to allow that public check . . . to confirm people are doing what they are supposed to be doing and that legislation has its desired effect."

Unless I am misinterpreting this clown's remarks; maybe this germ should read the United States Constitution.

Now who was the author of 1984?

Written in 1948 (btw)

The next step is to fill out a form on a monthly basis as to how many times you are allowed to have sex with:

1) Are you male, female or transgendered

2) How many times do you want to have sex with your partner?

3) Please explain and document the methods so that Larry Flynt and Ted Kennedy can learn new methods and tax your orgasms.

Series, I could go on but I have to go to Denver tomorrow and it's late here.

btw, I'm a master of sarcasm based upon where and what I perceive this country is going into hell at an AlGorythhmic rate.

[Prime Choice]

I thought we had a right to privacy???

Only if you're gay and have AIDS or if you're 13 and want an abortion. If you want to exercise your actual constitutional rights, then you're just one of the mindless unwashed rabble who loves to kill cute little ducklings and puppies.

[GeronL]

Vee need zee namez ov zee dissidentz

[GeronL]

A study that the non-profit center, which works to curb violence, conducted showed that "basically concealed carry permit holders were not stopping crimes, they were committing crimes," Rand said.

Oh please. That is the biggest load of hogwash, if it were true the media here would have had a field day with it. I think maybe someone with a carry permit was arrested for a non-gun related crime or something.

[Nipplemancer]

that dumbass makes it seem like they were going around shooting people and robbing liquor stores. Just because these folks had CCWs doesn't mean that their weapons were used in the crime and as the article pointed out a vast majority were non-violent crimes like driving without a license.
Statistics without context are lies made to look like the truth.

[FreedomCalls]

Any Texas FReepers want to debunk this B.S.?

Go here: http://www.tsra.com/arrests.htm. The following is an excerpt.

An Analysis of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders As Compared To The Arrest Rate Of The Entire Texas Population (1996 - 1998) Revised to include 1999 and 2000 data

Copyright Ó 1999, 2000, 2001 by W. E. Sturdevant

On January 1, 1996, the Texas Concealed Handgun Law went into effect. This law states that the Texas Department of Public Safety (TXDPS) "shall issue" a concealed handgun license (CHL) to any Texas resident who meets the application requirements for character (background check) and training. This is an analysis of arrest data for Texas concealed handgun licensees that was performed on data from the subsequent years of 1996 - 2000. A comparison was made with the arrest data for the entire Texas population for the same time period, showing that, on average: male Texans who are over 21 years old and are not CHL holders are 7.7 times more likely to be arrested for commission of a violent crime than male Texans with a CHL; and female Texans who are over 21 years old and are not CHL holders are 7.5 times more likely to be arrested for commission of a violent crime than female Texans with a CHL. Of the violent crime cases that have been adjudicated, approximately 26% of CHL holders who were arrested were convicted, and 44% are cleared of the violent crimes for which they were arrested.

[ExSoldier]

Didn't see this point addressed here:

"It is impossible for the public to engage in any meaningful oversight when the records are off the books."

It is not the responsibility of the public to oversee anything that has to do with fellow citizens! WATCHDOG GROUPS like the NRA, like the GOA watch the government to prevent infringment of rights. They don't watch each other. In the old USSR these groups would be defacto members of the GRU (secret police). Hmmmmmmm