Neal Boortz will discuss the Fair Tax Tonight on Hannity and Colmes.

[Texas_Conservative2]

Although the fair tax system as described sounds better than what we have now, it would be a whole lot better without the rebate checks.

Everyone should pay their fair share, even those below the poverty level.

If you want to see the government actually start to reign in out of control spending, nothing will accomplish that faster than making EVERYONE pay taxes.

Once everyone is paying taxes, everyone will have a stake in seeing them lowered, and the only way to lower them is to spend less money.

The rebate system for those under the poverty level will just become the new political battleground with Democrats running for national office promising to raise the poverty (rebate check) level to shift the burden more and more to the rich.

It would also be manipulated to give democratic states more money by saying the poverty level in those states is a much higher number. So not only would you have wealth redistribution from rich to poor but also from republican areas to democratic ones.

[Man50D]

Although the fair tax system as described sounds better than what we have now, it would be a whole lot better without the rebate checks.

Everyone should pay their fair share, even those below the poverty level.

If you want to see the government actually start to reign in out of control spending, nothing will accomplish that faster than making EVERYONE pay taxes.

Once everyone is paying taxes, everyone will have a stake in seeing them lowered, and the only way to lower them is to spend less money.

The rebate system for those under the poverty level will just become the new political battleground with Democrats running for national office promising to raise the poverty (rebate check) level to shift the burden more and more to the rich.

It would also be manipulated to give democratic states more money by saying the poverty level in those states is a much higher number. So not only would you have wealth redistribution from rich to poor but also from republican areas to democratic ones.

Apparently I'm not explaining the Fair Tax very well. Everyone of all economic classes will get a rebate. The rebate will vary depending on the income and size of the family household.

I agree with you spending is out of control but there is no correlation between increasing taxes and less spending. In fact it is just the opposite. Increasing taxes will provide more money to Congress. More money means more spending. The Fair Tax is revenue neutral. This means it will collect the same amount of money as the current system.

Everyone will pay taxes with the Fair tax because new items that are not neccessities will be taxed at 23% and therefore will not be included in the rebate.

[Texas_Conservative2]

quote "Apparently I'm not explaining the Fair Tax very well. Everyone of all economic classes will get a rebate. The rebate will vary depending on the income and size of the family household. "


I Think I understand you, but your missing my point.

Everyone will get a rebate based upon the poverty level (basically). So a poor family will get all the tax money they spent back, and a rich one will only get a small portion of what they paid in taxes back. The problem is the democrats will just try and manipulate the system to artificially raise the government defined poverty level so that only the top 10% will be paying taxes while the other 90% get all their money back in the form of rebates. All the dems would have to do is to declare that anyone who earns less than $500,000 a year is poor and are entitled to all their taxes paid to be refunded to them in the form of a rebate.



quote "I agree with you spending is out of control but there is no correlation between increasing taxes and less spending. In fact it is just the opposite. Increasing taxes will provide more money to Congress. More money means more spending. The Fair Tax is revenue neutral. This means it will collect the same amount of money as the current system. "

You misunderstood me, I don't want tax revenue increased I want the number of people who pay taxes to increase. Right now something like 10% of the population pays 90% of the taxes or something like that. And the bottom 50% pays almost zero. I would shift some of the tax burden in other words to the poor. The poor then would have a reason to be interested in lowering taxes.

Right now poor people could care less about taxes, because they don't pay them.

If A poor person who earns $10,000 a year has to pay $1,000 of that in taxes that he doesn't get back later from some sort of rebate, he has an incentive to vote for people who will cut government spending so that tax rates can be lowered.

[Sprite518]

I agree I like Neal too. I will be sure to watch Hannity ans Combs tonight.

[Always Right]

Not really. How are you going to compute where somebody is on the poverty scale without an IRS? Somebody has to track if you have income and what it is.

Income is still tracked and reported to the Social Security agency, and every purchases is tracked to make sure tax is paid. Keep all your receipts as they are proof that you paid your tax.

[Man50D]

So a poor family will get all the tax money they spent back, and a rich one will only get a small portion of what they paid in taxes back.

That is incorrect. No one will not get back all the tax money they spent. The rebate will not cover goods that are not neccessities. Many services are not covered in the rebate. Therefore people of all economic classes will have to pay taxes. The amount of taxed paid is determined by the individual. A person won't have to pay a tax if they don't want to buy a good or service. As a rule of thumb, the more money people have,the more they tend to spend. The more they spend, the more they pay in taxes. Congress could raise the poverty level but that would only give back more money and reduce the tax base. I doubt the Democrats would support that idea. The current tax system makes it easier for people not to pay taxes than the Fair Tax because of all the deductions allowed by the IRS. Whatever amount people pay in taxes with the Fair Tax will not effect you because you will still get 100% of your paycheck.

You misunderstood me, I don't want tax revenue increased I want the number of people who pay taxes to increase.Right now something like 10% of the population pays 90% of the taxes or something like that. And the bottom 50% pays almost zero. I would shift some of the tax burden in other words to the poor.

The tax base will increase if more people pay taxes. You are correct when you state the percentages paid with the current system. The tax burden will shift and be more balanced because all the deductions allowed by the IRS would be eliminated. The difference in the amount of taxes paid by any economic class will be based on how much people decide to spend.

Right now poor people could care less about taxes, because they don't pay them.

You're right. Many people don't pay taxes with the current tax system based on all the allowed deductions. Those deductions would be eliminated. They would have to pay taxes when they make a purchase. As I stated in my previous post, the tax will be revenue neutral but the important difference is compliance will improve.

[Eagle of Liberty]

I never thought of the rebate in this manner. You make a good point. The point you make is that the Democrat Party can mess up any good plan.

Seriously, I also just thought of all these checks going out every month and how many will get "lost". The IRS will become a customer service venue trying to hunt down misplaced checks.

Fair Tax would be a good option minus the rebates, but the more I think about the system, I think one reason for the rebates is to tax the crap out of people who do not have a legit SSN, i.e. illegals.

[Texas_Conservative2]

quote "Congress could raise the poverty level but that would only give back more money and reduce the tax base. I doubt the Democrats would support that idea"

you keep assuming the tax rate would remain the same.

what the democrats would do is raise the supposed poverty level which would shift the tax burden to the rich and then raise the rate to make up for the shortfall.

Your right that the dems would never accept less money, I didn't mean to imply that they would.

They will just keep raising the supposed poverty level and the rate until 90% of the population is considered living in poverty and the remaining 10% pay a 200% tax on every purchase.

[Texas_Conservative2]

is there a web link where I can read more about this ?

[Trajan88]

If my memory serves, Neal Boortz is a Texas A&M Aggie Former Student.

Gig 'Em!

Trajan88; TAMU Class of '88; Law Hall (may it R.I.P.) Ramp 9 Mule; f.u.p.!

[Eagle of Liberty]

They will just keep raising the supposed poverty level and the rate until 90% of the population is considered living in poverty and the remaining 10% pay a 200% tax on every purchase.

No. This would not happen under the Fair Tax. The dems would be sending back their working capital. Raising the poverty level would just send more money back to more people. Raising the tax rate is still a possibility, but that would piss off the poor as well. Basically, this system taxes most people to some extent. Some will get off free.

Read http://www.fairtax.org

[Man50D]

you keep assuming the tax rate would remain the same. what the democrats would do is raise the supposed poverty level which would shift the tax burden to the rich and then raise the rate to make up for the shortfall. Your right that the dems would never accept less money, I didn't mean to imply that they would. They will just keep raising the supposed poverty level and the rate until 90% of the population is considered living in poverty and the remaining 10% pay a 200% tax on every purchase.

Congress raising the poverty level would adversely effect any tax system. Assuming Congress raised the poverty to the level you state would make living in the U.S. cost prohibitive and would send the country into a depression. No minority that small could support such a large majority.The 10% you refer to would either end up belonging to the other 90% or leave the country.

Your above scenario is not reasonable. We can only base our decisions based on facts and not wild assumptions. The bottom line is do you want to collect 100% of your paycheck and have the choice as to how much and when you pay taxes or do you still want to have the government take your money before you have it?

[Man50D]

Yes. The link is http://www.fairtax.org

[Sprite518]

Boortz is on Hannity now.

http://www.hannity.com/index/listenlive

[hattend]

He's on Hannity's radio show right now

[hattend]

It's a retail sales tax so everybody pays although Boortz says there will be a federal check given back to you at the beginning of the month for "necessities of life".

They need to amend the Constitution in order to get rid of the current income tax so don't look for this to happen any time soon.

[hattend]

The rebate system for those under the poverty level will just become the new political battleground with Democrats running for national office promising to raise the poverty (rebate check) level to shift the burden more and more to the rich.

Yep, and to make up for shortfalls in the system (larger rebate checks) the sales tax is raised. Pretty soon you are paying more in sales tax than you were in income taxes. The NRST would need a Constitutional limit imposed.

[Your Nightmare]

You misunderstood me, I don't want tax revenue increased I want the number of people who pay taxes to increase. Right now something like 10% of the population pays 90% of the taxes or something like that. And the bottom 50% pays almost zero. I would shift some of the tax burden in other words to the poor. The poor then would have a reason to be interested in lowering taxes.

The President's Tax Reform Panel recently released distribution analyzes on several tax reform plans, including a NRST with a "prebate." With the NRST, the bottom 20% of the population paid a negative 2.5% tax rate compare to 0.4% under the current system. So they actually profit from taxes. If you raise the rate, they profit more.

[nutmeg]

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[Man50D]

I heard the first part of the interview but missed the rest after they returned from a break. I was talking to a friend who grew up in Toronto and returned my call to tell give me more information about the plane crash.

FYI: Neal will be on CNN/American Morning and FOX/Your World with Neil Cavuto tomorrow.