US law could segregate foreign scientists in labs (For security reasons)

Science and development Network ^ | 22 July 2005

[nickcarraway]

The US Department of Defence has proposed a rule that would make it difficult for universities to engage foreign scientists in any work the department funds.

It is the latest in a series of initiatives intended to minimise the risk of certain technologies falling into the hands of countries that the United States views as security threats.

To comply with the proposed rule, universities and companies doing work funded by the department would need to obtain special licences to employ foreign scientists, and control their access to project information.

This could include making foreign nationals wear badges and work in segregated areas.

The proposed rule was published in the 12 July Federal Register and will be open for comment until 12 September.

[iceskater]

Ping to you. Not sure if this is something you're interested in. "Deemed export controls" is the next big thing in university research.

[Tired of Taxes]

Finally!

[CAP811]

Little late perhaps?

[ncountylee]

This could include making foreign nationals wear badges...

I'm all for the badges but some sort of insult could be added ie Clown Shoes.

[LurkedLongEnough]

The Chinese just put out a list of all the things they still would like to get from U.S. technology after the Clinton/Gore administration; here it is:

.

[snowsislander]

Seeing as some of our most famous cryptographers are not American citizens but serve as Principal Investigators on DOD contracts, this is going to be an interesting one to see implemented.

I followed the links, and found the relevant section of the Federal Register with the proposed new rules:

252.204-70XX  Requirements Regarding Access to Export-Controlled 
Information and Technology.

    As prescribed in 204.7304, use the following clause:

Requirements Regarding Access to Export-Controlled Information and 
Technology (XXX 2005)

    (a) Definition. Export-controlled information and technology, as 
used in this clause, means information and technology that may only 
be released to foreign nationals or foreign persons in accordance 
with the Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR parts 730-774) 
and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (22 CFR parts 120-
130), respectively.
    (b) In performing this contract, the Contractor may gain access 
to export-controlled information or technology.
    (c) The Contractor shall comply with all applicable laws and 
regulations regarding export-controlled information and technology, 
including registration in accordance with the International Traffic 
in Arms Regulations.
    (d) The Contractor shall maintain an effective export compliance 
program. The program must include adequate controls over physical, 
visual, and electronic access to export-controlled information and 
technology to ensure that access by foreign firms and individuals is 
restricted as required by applicable Federal laws, Executive orders, 
and regulations.
    (1) The access control plan shall include unique badging 
requirements for foreign nationals and foreign persons and 
segregated work areas for export-controlled information and 
technology.
    (2) The Contractor shall not allow access by foreign nationals 
or foreign persons to export-controlled information and technology 
without obtaining an export license, other authorization, or 
exemption.
    (e) The Contractor shall--
    (1) Conduct initial and periodic training on export compliance 
controls for those employees who have access to export-controlled 
information and technology; and

[[Page 39978]]

    (2) Perform periodic assessments to ensure full compliance with 
Federal export laws and regulations.
    (f) Nothing in the terms of this contract is intended to change, 
supersede, or waive any of the requirements of applicable Federal 
laws, Executive orders, and regulations, including but not limited 
to--
    (1) The Export Administration Act of 1979 (50 U.S.C. App. 2401 
as extended by Executive Order 13222);
    (2) The Arms Export Control Act of 1976 (22 U.S.C. 2751);
    (3) The Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR parts 730-
774);
    (4) The International Traffic in Arms Regulations (22 CFR parts 
120-130);
    (5) DoD Directive 2040.2, International Transfers of Technology, 
Goods, Services, and Munitions; and
    (6) DoD Industrial Security Regulation (DoD 5220.22-R).
    (g) The Contractor shall include the substance of this clause, 
including this paragraph (g), in all subcontracts for--
    (1) Research and development; or
    (2) Services or supplies that may involve the use or generation 
of export-controlled information or technology.

[iceskater]

I've been hearing about this issue for about a year now. The hue and cry I've heard from university research administrators is bordering on the hysterical. All I can think is, "do I want to find out that the next terrorists to hit American soil studied at my university?" I think not.

Universities have the option to reject funding from the DOD if the regulatory requirements are too onerous. (Like that'll ever happen)

[brooklyn dave]

I mean why do we have so many foreign scientists in the first place? Gets back to the American education system...distract and dumb down the masses. I have met so many college students and have asked them what their major is, and I'd get some answer that they were doig something in the arts. Grant it, I admit I am a big barbarian and view the arts as being on one of the lower rungs of my values ladder. If I had completed college, I definitely would have gone into political science or history as a major. I believe there really isn't any encouragement from academia to have young Americans to go into the hard sciences and research. There should be no need to have to depend on Chinese nationals to work in our labs where security is an issue.

[iceskater]

They would have to get, in effect, an export license in order to carry out the terms of the contract. If their research is that important to the DOD, I'm sure they'll be able to do that.

Most of the whining that I've heard is that this requirement is an onerous burden.

[iceskater]

There's also a whole money thing related to foreign students at American universities. Foreign students pay full freight on tuition so universities like that. And it bulks up their stats so they can beg the government for more money - especially state-supoorted institutions.

[Brilliant]

seems a little late for that.

[untrained skeptic]

Apparently the people writing for Science Magazine can't read very well.

"(1) The access control plan shall include unique badging
requirements for foreign nationals and foreign persons and
segregated work areas for export-controlled information and
technology."

Notice that the segregated areas are for the export-controlled information to be worked on, not for the foreign scientists.

" (2) The Contractor shall not allow access by foreign nationals or foreign persons to export-controlled information and technology without obtaining an export license, other authorization, or exemption."

Foreign scientists can still work in the areas with export-controlled information, they just need to get the proper authorization first.

This is typical liberal scare tactics.

[Alter Kaker]

This is actually a very bad decision. I know many Israeli scientists who have gone and done great work funded by the US defense dept. As your country doesn't produce anywhere near enough top scientists, scientists from other countries, who love America, go there and their discoveries help make America as rich and succesful as it is. These are people you want to immigrate -- people with advanced degrees, who contribute enormously to the economy, the vast majority of whom pose no security risk. Keep an eye on them, of course, but don't segregate them.

[Alter Kaker]

I mean why do we have so many foreign scientists in the first place?

Because the demand for top scientists in America far excedes the available supply. Either you train more Americans, or you decide that having top R & D is no longer a priority, but you cannot simply exclude or discourage foreign scientists from studying and working in America and expect to maintain the same technological lead over rivals.

[Alter Kaker]

Just as an example, the top scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project were almost exclusively foreign born, and many if not most of them were citizens of countries the United States was then at war with. Where would the US be without Leo Szillard, Enrico Fermi, Edward Teller, Eugene Wigner, Hans Bethe, Felix Bloch... or even Albert Einstein, who didn't work on the project, but was fast-tracked for a visa because of his scientific credentials and who wrote a letter to Franklin Roosevelt that led to the Project?

[snowsislander]

Because the demand for top scientists in America far excedes the available supply. Either you train more Americans, or you decide that having top R & D is no longer a priority, but you cannot simply exclude or discourage foreign scientists from studying and working in America and expect to maintain the same technological lead over rivals.

Then why do we have so many postdocs in poorly paying positions?

I did a quick Google, and here are the rates for Stanford Medical School (which I assume pays better than most state universities programs, although that's based on very limited data on my part):

Salary guidelines

The University Provost establishes minimum pay levels based on the years of cumulative research experience a Postdoctoral Scholar has when appointed. The minimum annual pay for first-year scholars in the current 2004-2005 academic year (autumn through summer) is $36,000.

Pay levels for academic years 2004-2005 and 2005-2006:

Research Experience Years Completed	Stanford University and School of Medicine Minimum Annual Pay as of October 1, 2004	NIH Minimums as of October 1, 2005	Stanford University and School of Medicine Minimum Annual Pay as of October 1, 2005
0 (<1)	$36,000	$35,568	$36,991
1	$37,800	$37,476	$38,975
2	$42,336	$41,796	$42,336
3	$44,453	$43,428	$44,453
4	$46,675	$45,048	$46,675
5	----	$46,992	----
6	----	$48,852	----
7 or more	----	$51,036	----

[GOP_1900AD]

Good!

[snowsislander]

They would have to get, in effect, an export license in order to carry out the terms of the contract. If their research is that important to the DOD, I'm sure they'll be able to do that.

Most of the whining that I've heard is that this requirement is an onerous burden.

I would like to think that getting such an export license would be possible for PIs who are already receiving grant money from the DOD. [Though I do wonder exactly how graduate classes would be handled involving certain current research, say in cryptography.]

The question for me is how many of the better-known folks who aren't Americans who will eventually say "enough with all of this hassle", and just go to another institution in a friendlier clime.

[iceskater]

I don't know how cryptography as a curriculum subject as opposed to a research subject would be treated under these regulations. My gut reaction is that curricula fall outside the purview of these proposed regs.

I don't know how other countries handle things like this. It may be that these regulations are not as bad as other countries'. But no matter what, if the person perceives a "better value" to go somewhere else, they're probably going to go somewhere else. (Value includes salary and benes as well as the hassle factor.) There is still somewhat of a market mentality that will prevail.