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Congress set to impose ID card rules: States would need to verify papers
boston.com ^ | May 5, 2005 | Charlie Savage

Posted on 05/05/2005 12:57:26 PM PDT by Destro

Congress set to impose ID card rules
States would need to verify papers

By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | May 5, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Congressional negotiators have agreed on a sweeping new system that would nationalize standards for driver's licenses and state identification cards, requiring states to verify the authenticity of every document that people use to prove their identity and show their legal residency.

If the House and Senate both pass the bill next week as expected, by May 2008 every state will be required to contact the issuers of birth certificates, mortgage statements, utility bills, Social Security cards, and immigration papers before granting a driver's license. States will also have to keep copies of those documents for seven years.

Touted as an antiterrorism measure, the Real ID Act would effectively erase laws in nine states that allow undocumented immigrants to obtain standard driver's licenses, which are widely accepted as official identification for boarding airplanes, opening bank accounts, and entering federal courthouses.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; 2006; 2006election; 2006senaterace; aliens; arizona; az; bigbrother; borders; ca; california; closetheborder; ct; driverlicense; driverslicense; endradicallatinlobby; id; illegalaliens; immigrantlist; immigration; invasionofprivacy; laraza; maldef; maryland; mecha; mexa; mmp; mva; nationalid; nazi; nazis; nm; peoplesrepublicofmd; privacy; protectourelections; protectourvotes; realid; tx; ut; votelibertarian; voterfraud
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Papieren bitte?

Excuse me, is the anti-christ running the Republican party?

1 posted on 05/05/2005 12:57:27 PM PDT by Destro
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To: Destro

Nine!


2 posted on 05/05/2005 1:01:14 PM PDT by Red Badger (Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make liberal.....................)
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To: Destro

not so long ago, I was against this kind of federal ID action - but now, the onslaught of illegal immigration has forced me to "evolve" my position


3 posted on 05/05/2005 1:02:00 PM PDT by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: Destro

Wow, how to turn an excrutiating hour trip to renew your legit drivers license into a 4-month long process. I think I would rather drive an ice-pick into my eardrum repeatedly.


4 posted on 05/05/2005 1:02:26 PM PDT by ctlpdad (There can be no triumph without loss, no victory without suffering and no freedom without sacrifice!)
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To: ctlpdad

It recently took my man about 5 hours at the DMV just to renew his license. You should see how pissed he looks in his photo!


5 posted on 05/05/2005 1:05:00 PM PDT by Feiny (I am the one that sent you all that spam.)
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To: Destro
Hey Gannt, your papers are not in order! Image hosted by TinyPic.com
6 posted on 05/05/2005 1:07:45 PM PDT by Sax
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To: ctlpdad

Your papers please?

When do we get the hammer and sickle or do we settle for the swastika?


7 posted on 05/05/2005 1:07:57 PM PDT by libertarianben (Looking for sanity and his hard to find cousin common sense)
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To: rface
"not so long ago, I was against this kind of federal ID action - but now, the onslaught of illegal immigration has forced me to "evolve" my position"

I agree with you. I fully believe this is a necessary step in the war on terror and the securing of our borders. All the states have to face this issue unitedly or national security is only a pipe dream.

8 posted on 05/05/2005 1:08:17 PM PDT by el_texicano
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To: Destro

Anyone see the movie Code 46? Pretty dreary, starring communist America loather Tim Robbins, but looks just about what 2008 is turning out to be. Papelle please.


9 posted on 05/05/2005 1:08:53 PM PDT by Malsua
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To: rface
So you're confident that the criminals will not be able to falsify or forge their "papers?" Just curious. Because if they can, it just means more checks on and hoops to jump through for the law-abiding and another paper to buy for the criminal.
10 posted on 05/05/2005 1:10:41 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: el_texicano; rface

Hey how about avoiding this and you know actually SECURING THE FRIGGIN BORDERS?


11 posted on 05/05/2005 1:11:18 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: libertarianben

Go underground. Drive naked.

Nobody is forcing you to get a drivers license.


12 posted on 05/05/2005 1:11:47 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (In God We Trust. All Others We Monitor.)
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To: libertarianben

They will put the state issued tattoo right on top of the RFID chip in your forearm.


13 posted on 05/05/2005 1:13:12 PM PDT by ctlpdad (There can be no triumph without loss, no victory without suffering and no freedom without sacrifice!)
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To: rface
Why? What good will it do when the only people inconvenienced will be us? Right now illegals are given licenses, bank accts etc with the knowledge they're here illegally. Bascially they're given a free pass. This law is more window dressing. Why not put the effort into securing our borders??
14 posted on 05/05/2005 1:15:51 PM PDT by 556x45
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Outlaw forgery and terrorism.....That's the real solution.

Like Duh...no matter what you come up with, there's a counter that will work and/or they'll just change their tactics.

15 posted on 05/05/2005 1:17:21 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: libertarianben
When do we get the hammer and sickle or do we settle for the swastika?

Contrary to what some believe this is not a national id but, having said that what do we do when states won't stop issuing drivers licenses to illegal aliens despite 9/11?

17 posted on 05/05/2005 1:18:27 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Destro

This is great news. I do not know why you are upset about it.


18 posted on 05/05/2005 1:18:28 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: Destro
Hey how about avoiding this and you know actually SECURING THE FRIGGIN BORDERS?

secure the borders and secure the infrastructure ----- walk and chew gum at the same time.

19 posted on 05/05/2005 1:20:10 PM PDT by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: Destro
All they had to do was pass a law that required various information to be provided prior to a state issuing a drivers license. Instead they have constructed a national ID card along with the network to track such an ID card.

Many states will spend huge amounts of money changing their data processing systems to comply with this new national identity card. Much much more than the feds have said since they pulled the numbers out of thin air.

Another thing the law does is create a national driving history system. Much like the current law for commercial driver's licenses. Insurance companies should like that.

This is a stupid law tacked on to other stupid legislation without any public hearings.

There is some border security built into the law but it's mostly for high tech cameras and whatnot. My solution would be to take the next 30,000 people sneaking across the Mexican border, give them border patrol uniforms and pay half of them a good amount of money for each person they keep out. Then pay the other half a good amount for each illegal they find that's already here that we can send back to Mexico. IE: Hire the Mexicans to kick out the Mexicans.

20 posted on 05/05/2005 1:23:25 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (You must respect my a-tor-it-tah!)
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To: Destro
Look, I very much agree with you about securing the borders. But can we honestly believe that even our best efforts to secure those borders and coastlines will keep out 100% of the illegals?

I would like to see anyone else with an honest guestimate of just how much percentage wise the securing of the borders would serve? I seriously doubt we could achieve even 80% blockage.

So, to help with the internal security of this nation, I would have no problem with an id card that proves your identity. I don't care if it is a retinal scan, finger prints, or DNA record. To make the leap that this would reduce us to the level of Nazi Germany is ludicrous.

21 posted on 05/05/2005 1:24:45 PM PDT by el_texicano
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: macaroona
It really is as simple as that if we have the WILL to do it.

Do you really is it as simple as that? if it is that simple why we are not doing it.

23 posted on 05/05/2005 1:28:30 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: rface
"...not so long ago, I was against this kind of federal ID action - but now, the onslaught of illegal immigration has forced me to "evolve" my position"

As I have asked my Congressman Todd Akin via e-mail from his website, what enumerated "powers of Congress" is he citing justifying the propriety of this legislation?

Article 1, Section 8 list 17 enumerated Congressional powers. Not one of them authorizes such legislation.

What it does authorize Congress to do about illegal immigration is the following:

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Members of Congress have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Please write your Congressman and pose the same question to him/her and to abide by their oath of office.

24 posted on 05/05/2005 1:30:12 PM PDT by tahiti
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To: macaroona
It really is as simple as that if we have the WILL to do it.

Do you really think that it is it as simple as that? if it is that simple why are we not doing it? Why don't we have the will to do it? There is something more to it.

25 posted on 05/05/2005 1:30:12 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: macaroona

Thank you.


27 posted on 05/05/2005 1:34:17 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
Papieren bitte?

Excuse me, is the anti-christ running the Republican party?

The law simply requires that ID be verified before issuing a driver's license, for crying out loud and mandates a uniform process for doing that across the nation. Good grief.

28 posted on 05/05/2005 1:37:01 PM PDT by frgoff
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To: jveritas
...if it is that simple why are we not doing it?

Perhaps because the GOP is gutless, and afraid of alienating latino voters?

Perhaps because the Presidents sister-in-law (Columba Bush) is hispanic (Born in Leon-Guanajato, Mexico in 1953)?

29 posted on 05/05/2005 1:37:10 PM PDT by holymoly ("Got any of that beer that has candy floating in it? You know, Skittlebrau?" - Homer Simpson)
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To: frgoff

Where in the Constitution does Congress get the power to tell the States to do this?


30 posted on 05/05/2005 1:40:04 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
Wait a minute....don't we already have a national ID? I think it's called a PASSPORT. Granted American passports do not have a physical description of the barer, but that could be corrected and updated when each person renews their passports. Seems simple to me.

Red

31 posted on 05/05/2005 1:43:21 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (God bless America...land that I love...stand beside her and guide her...)
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To: Conservative4Ever

Passports are for external travel - now we are getting a passport to travel inside the USA.


32 posted on 05/05/2005 1:45:50 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Destro
Passports are for external travel - now we are getting a passport to travel inside the USA.

Nothing is changing, an id like a drivers license has been required to board an airplane for years. All this does is make sure that when you're getting a license that you're entitled to it.

34 posted on 05/05/2005 1:48:26 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: macaroona
Who are the large employers that want cheap labor? Can you name ten large corporations who hire cheap labor? I think it is mostly small business owners who hire illegal immigrants for cheap labor, gas station, cleaning crews, restaurants, small construction contractors etc...
35 posted on 05/05/2005 1:49:52 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: holymoly
Why is the GOP afraid of alienating the Latino voters? Perhaps that if they do not get a certain % of Latino voters they may not win elections.
36 posted on 05/05/2005 1:51:08 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Actually, this will make it more valuable to falsify or forge papers.


39 posted on 05/05/2005 1:59:10 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Destro
The part that gets me is how the federal government can take money from the citizens of a state. And then blackmail the state to conform to its whims or else they will not give back money they took...And no ones calls it blackmail. In reality this is how the federal government gets around states rights. We do need to check for illegals before issuing drivers licenses, but they should not be allowed to dictate what is on the drivers license that is given to a states citizen.
40 posted on 05/05/2005 1:59:25 PM PDT by Revel
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To: All

There is something here that hasn’t been address: A U.S. citizen living outside the U.S. who does not have a state driver’s license, only the drivers license from the country where one lives. Maybe the U.S. Embassy will be called upon to take care of this as they do passports.

Since I have had to carry various IDs all my life once I step out of the house (at one time I was carrying 4 wallet-size IDs), it doesn’t bother me. I even have to show the local government issued ID to purchase something with a credit card, which I consider a good idea because it is for everyone’s protection.


41 posted on 05/05/2005 1:59:29 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: macaroona

We must secure the borders but how many soldiers, border patrols, do you need to secure all the Southern borders?


42 posted on 05/05/2005 2:02:29 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: Destro
Well - at least one good thing is in this bill:
The Real ID Act also contains a provision that will allow the Homeland Security secretary to waive any law that would inhibit the building of fencing along US borders. The provision is aimed at completing construction of a 2.5-mile section of fencing along a smuggling route between San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico, that has been delayed for years by environmental concerns.

43 posted on 05/05/2005 2:02:38 PM PDT by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: macaroona

And ho do you want to elect instead. Do you have a party in mind?


44 posted on 05/05/2005 2:03:31 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: jveritas

ho=who


45 posted on 05/05/2005 2:03:48 PM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: Destro
I've already got mine

46 posted on 05/05/2005 2:04:14 PM PDT by evets (God bless President Bush and VP Cheney)
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To: Destro

Why not just deny they have the authority the way that Baseball, Greer, and the UN Investigators have done?


47 posted on 05/05/2005 2:10:01 PM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republicans... To Arms!)
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To: Destro

H.R. 1268

SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use- (1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary of Transportation. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may prescribe by regulation.

(b) Minimum Document Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:

(1) The person's full legal name.

(2) The person's date of birth.

(3) The person's gender.

(4) The person's driver's license or identification card number.

(5) A digital photograph of the person.

(6) The person's address of principle residence.

(7) The person's signature.

(8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.

(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.

(c) Minimum Issuance Standards-

(1) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person:

(A) A photo identity document, except that a non-photo identity document is acceptable if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth.

(B) Documentation showing the person's date of birth.

(C) Proof of the person's social security account number or verification that the person is not eligible for a social security account number.

(D) Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence.

(2) SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS-

(A) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall comply with the minimum standards of this paragraph.

(B) EVIDENCE OF LAWFUL STATUS- A State shall require, before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence that the person--

(i) is a citizen of the United States;

(ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence in the United States;

(iii) has conditional permanent resident status in the United States;

(iv) has an approved application for asylum in the United States or has entered into the United States in refugee status;

(v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States;

(vi) has a pending application for asylum in the United States;

(vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the United States;

(viii) has approved deferred action status; or

(ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States or conditional permanent resident status in the United States.

(C) TEMPORARY DRIVERS' LICENSES AND IDENTIFICATION CARDS-

(i) IN GENERAL- If a person presents evidence under any of clauses (v) through (ix) of subparagraph (B), the State may only issue a temporary driver's license or temporary identification card to the person.

(ii) EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall be valid only during the period of time of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States or, if there is no definite end to the period of authorized stay, a period of one year.

(iii) DISPLAY OF EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall clearly indicate that it is temporary and shall state the date on which it expires.

(iv) RENEWAL- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph may be renewed only upon presentation of valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary driver's license or temporary identification card has been extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:

(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).

(B) The State shall not accept any foreign document, other than an official passport, to satisfy a requirement of paragraph (1) or (2).

(C) Not later than September 11, 2005, the State shall enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of Homeland Security to routinely utilize the automated system known as Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements, as provided for by section 404 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (110 Stat. 3009-664), to verify the legal presence status of a person, other than a United States citizen, applying for a driver's license or identification card.

(d) Other Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall adopt the following practices in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards:

(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.

(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.

(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.

(4) Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information.

(5) Confirm with the Social Security Administration a social security account number presented by a person using the full social security account number. In the event that a social security account number is already registered to or associated with another person to which any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State shall resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.

(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license.

(7) Ensure the physical security of locations where drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced and the security of document materials and papers from which drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced.

(8) Subject all persons authorized to manufacture or produce drivers' licenses and identification cards to appropriate security clearance requirements.

(9) Establish fraudulent document recognition training programs for appropriate employees engaged in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards.

(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.

(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:

(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.

(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.


I may have missed it, but I see nothing in the legislation regarding deportation of illegals who attempt to obtain a drivers license.

48 posted on 05/05/2005 2:12:18 PM PDT by holymoly ("Got any of that beer that has candy floating in it? You know, Skittlebrau?" - Homer Simpson)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

I think the American Eagle will do quite nicely for an insignia, thank you very much. At least as good as the Roman eagle, but I want the arrows in its talons, not the olive brance, and I'd like there to be a snake in its beak.

Did you know there is a Fascisti in the US Congress?


49 posted on 05/05/2005 2:13:04 PM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republicans... To Arms!)
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To: rface
not so long ago, I was against this kind of federal ID action - but now, the onslaught of illegal immigration has forced me to "evolve" my position

Sure.

Like they're really doing this to stop illegal immigration.

50 posted on 05/05/2005 2:18:30 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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