Posted on 03/20/2005 7:16:24 PM PST by Coastal
Words are so easy to use. Words mean things. Words are also easily used, especially when the right words elude. In Florida, Terri Schiavo is now waiting to die. Does she know it? You can be assured she does. Can she speak about it? No. Does that mean she is in a 'vegetative state'? NO!
But what is a 'vegetative state'? According to Dr. Jeffrey Frank, director of neurological and neurosurgical intensive care at the University of Chicago, "A person in a vegetative state is 'awake but not aware,'... 'Though reflexes may cause them to turn toward a sound, gaze at an object or respond to touch, 'there is no thought connected ... these are primitive, instinctual responses."
Excuse me?
That just described the vast majority of humans. Most humans do not use the short-term 'conscious' process of their brain for more than a way station of information. The motor control outputted from that short-term process, if employed would dramatically reduce stress, cut down drastically on reactionary physical violence and solve a great deal of the world's problems.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalledger.com ...
"Personally, I don't appreciate it when individuals such as yourself make uninformed comments. That shows a lack of respect for the facts, as well as Terri and her the family."
DUDE!! I made clear my ignorance to begin with and was very clear in what I knew BEFORE drawing any conclusion. The problem with this case is the very emotional nature as so perfectly expressed by your immediate jumping on my back has resulted in so much name calling and finger pointing that you can't tell who knows what they are talking about and who is just full of it.
I understand this is serious for you, but take a tip from MHGinTN and Lexinom in a couple of minutes, they managed to get me up to speed, you have just managed to raise the hair on the back of my neck.
What harm in letting the parents and dissenting neurologists try therapy, at no expense to the taxpayer?
You are struggling right now with priorities.
There's a lot of concern about constitutional issues, as well as separation of powers (e.g. States Rights). We have a well-proven and solid system. Very rarely, but sometimes, we discover a flaw in that system. We fought a war over this in the 1860's when States' Rights clashed with human rights. There were good arguments on both sides. Many symptathetic to the Conferacy (myself included) believe slavery would have gone away without a war. No one - North or South - held the slave trade in high repute.
In this case, the clash is between States' Rights and human rights - only this time it's an innocent disabled woman with no written wishes to end her life. The choice before us is maintaining the integrity of the division of power and accepting a potentially deadly legal precedent, or of recognizing the impending collision, admitting the flaw, and reaffirming that the 14th Amendment must of necessity trump States' Rights.
Anybody not believing this amounts to court sponsored murder of a disabled human being, go to terrisfight.org, click on the column on the left on Court Documents and click on the pdf file of Greer denies feeding by mouth.
In it, he goes so far to deny any motion to even allow someone to attempt to feed her in natural manner.
Starve your dog and go to jail. Starve your disabled wife in Florida and become a hero, at least in Greers court.
I'm sure that your socialist screwel teacher told you that, but the Civil War was about #1, taxes, and #2, States Rights. Slavery was injected by Lincolin, as a recruiting tool after the war was already a year under way. Almost 1/3 of the confederate troops were actually slaves, and most of them were volunteers. Black poverty is largely a result of the schisms that grew out of the war.
I've read 40,000 blacks fought for the south, which would be less than 1/3, but perhaps my memory is wrong.
You will agree, I hope, that the real reasons for the War Between the States aka the War of Northern Aggression notwithstanding, slavery is reprehensible and was a violation of fundamental rights that required real national soul-searching and a rethinking. Hence, the 14th Amendment. This, to my mind, fits within the same category.
"The problem with this case is the very emotional nature as so perfectly expressed by your immediate jumping on my back..."
Pardon my observation, but who is being emotional? You were the individual that decided to post a comment on an issue you knew nothing about(judging by your post). We, as FReepers, which includes the patient individuals that took the time out to enlighten you regarding the facts of the case, know who's "full of it." We certainly can tell "who knows what" because we choose to be informed and post our comments with a respectable level of knowledge with regard to this specific case.
"they managed to get me up to speed,". They MANAGED? Did you manage to muster up some effort to do more research, or is the information they supplied good enough for you?
I couldn't help but notice how unmoved you were after being given that information regarding Terri's current state and the issues surrounding her case.
Now who is "name calling and finger pointing" here?
THE HOUSE BILL PASSED
203 yeas, 58 nays
I am not advocating doing anything to anyone. I am just calling for volunteers.
SO9
Kill, kill, kill. Why are you so centered on violence. I am just asking for volunteers. Maybe they could be offered a free trip to disneyland or something first.
SO9
"Pardon my observation, but who is being emotional? .... I couldn't help but notice how unmoved you were"
So are you calling me emotional or unemotional?
As a matter of fact, yes, with the exception of replying to you and and that other post I have been reading (and listening to audio) ever since. The information the other two posters gave me was an excellent point to start from. What the other posters did was called "educating the public" and it is actually helpful to your case, you will find that people will know more if you take a moment to explain your position to them.
So, after my cram course, I have to say that I respectfully decline to have an opinion at this juncture. It boils down to he said she said. If you believe the family then the husband is an evil monster. If you believe the husband then he is forced into making the most horrendous decision of his life.
My wife and I have said exactly the same thing that she supposedly said about not wanting to be maintained in that state. And unlike many in this forum I believe a person has a right to end their life should they so choose by whatever method they so choose. But either way I will be getting my will done ASAP.
Congrats on the passage of the bill and hopefully our next crossing can be more civil.
Bump for Terri.
How much of a person's brain has to be liquified before I can make a guess?
Obviously there are a lot of big questions about what awareness is and how it comes about. But we are some things we can know. It's not in your toe, it's not in your pinkie, it's not in your brainstem, it is dependent on your cerebral cortex. And when that's gone your counciousness is no longer a part of this physical world.
What pop evangelist told you that? What's your source?
What are all you going to say when the Federal Judge finds Terri in a persistent vegetative state? Can you possibly conceive of the fact that you could be wrong?
Kind of irrelevant since PVS patients are supposed to die within a year, with very few exceptions. Just the fact that she has lived this long nearly rules it out alone.
Just imagine what would have happened if you simply asked the question, "Can someone please give me some details regarding this Terri Schiavo case, I'm clueless?"
Not all FReepers wish to spend their time bottle feeding the facts to someone who comes along and wishes to voice their opinion on an issue they know nothing about.
"explain your position to them." You should consider exiting the world of grave issues if you don't care to be challenged on your views. When it comes to life and death subjects which could ultimately affect each and every American, many FReepers don't take casual attitudes lightly, as you have come to realize by these posts.
I'm confident that in the future, depending upon the issue and where we stand, it will be respectfully civil.
Given the facts that you recently discovered, I can understand, although we may disagree, where you stand on the matter.
Yes, I am deeply grateful for the passing of this bill. I pray that this will be the beginning of a life that Terri Schiavo and her parents deserve.
I was at the hospice on Friday, they made the dad show ID before letting him on the property.
How about if the husband is shacking up with another woman with their two illigitimate kids. Would you say he is making decisions in your best interest (or maybe his)?
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