Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

U.S. Says It Has Withdrawn From World Judicial Body
NY Times ^ | March 10, 2005 | ADAM LIPTAK

Posted on 03/09/2005 8:35:05 PM PST by neverdem

Prompted by an international tribunal's decision last year ordering new hearings for 51 Mexicans on death rows in the United States, the State Department said yesterday that the United States had withdrawn from the protocol that gave the tribunal jurisdiction to hear such disputes.

The withdrawal followed a Feb. 28 memorandum from President Bush to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales directing state courts to abide by the decision of the tribunal, the International Court of Justice in The Hague. The decision required American courts to grant "review and reconsideration" to claims that the inmates' cases had been hurt by the failure of local authorities to allow them to contact consular officials.

The memorandum, issued in connection with a case the United States Supreme Court is scheduled to hear this month, puzzled state prosecutors, who said it seemed inconsistent with the administration's general hostility to international institutions and its support for the death penalty.

The withdrawal announced yesterday helps explains the administration's position.

Darla Jordan, a State Department spokeswoman, said the administration was troubled by foreign interference in the domestic capital justice system but intended to fulfill its obligations under international law.

But Ms. Jordan said, "We are protecting against future International Court of Justice judgments that might similarly interfere in ways we did not anticipate when we joined the optional protocol."

Peter J. Spiro, a law professor at the University of Georgia, said the withdrawal was unbecoming.

"It's a sore-loser kind of move," Professor Spiro said. "If we can't win, we're not going to play."

Ms. Jordan emphasized that the United States was not withdrawing from the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations itself, which gives people arrested abroad the right to contact their home countries' consulates. But the United States is withdrawing, she said, from an optional protocol that gives the International Court of Justice in The Hague, the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, jurisdiction to hear disputes under the convention.

"While roughly 160 countries belong to the consular convention," she said, "less than 30 percent of those countries belong to the optional protocol. By withdrawing from the protocol, the United States has joined the 70 percent of the countries that do not belong. For example, Brazil, Canada, Jordan, Russia and Spain do not belong."

Among the countries that have signed the protocol are Australia, Britain, Germany and Japan.

Ms. Jordan said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice informed Kofi Annan, the secretary general of the United Nations, of the move on Monday.

Harold Hongju Koh, the dean of the Yale Law School and a former State Department official in the Clinton administration, said the Bush administration's strategy was counterproductive.

"International adjudication is an important tool in a post-cold-war, post-9/11 world," Dean Koh said.

For 40 years, from 1946 to 1986, the United States accepted the general jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in all kinds of cases against other nations that had also agreed to the court's jurisdiction. After an unfavorable ruling from the court in 1986 over the mining of Nicaragua's harbors, the United States withdrew from the court's general jurisdiction.

But it continued to accept its jurisdiction under about 70 specific treaties, including the protocol withdrawn from on Monday, said Lori F. Damrosch, a law professor at Columbia. The other treaties cover subjects like navigation, terrorism, narcotics and copyrights, and they are unaffected.

The United States Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the case of José Ernesto Medellín, a Mexican on death row in Texas, on March 28. Mr. Medellín asks the court to enforce last year's judgment of the international tribunal. Texas opposes the request.

When the federal government filed its supporting brief for Texas in the case at the end of last month, it appended the memorandum from the president to the attorney general.

Before the administration's strategy came into focus, international law professors greeted the memorandum with amazement.

"This is a president who has been openly hostile to international law and international institutions knuckling under, and knuckling under where there are significant federalism concerns," Professor Spiro said.

As it turned out, Dean Koh said, the government had "an integrated strategy."

"Element 1," he continued, "was to take the bat out of the Supreme Court's hand."

Lawyers for Mr. Medellín reacted cautiously. In a motion filed in the Supreme Court yesterday, Donald F. Donovan, a lawyer with the New York law firm Debevoise & Plimpton, asked the court to put off hearing argument until Texas state courts could consider Mr. Medellín's claim.

For their part, Texas prosecutors have not conceded that the president has the power to force courts there to reopen the Medellín case.

In a statement, Jerry Strickland, a spokesman for Attorney General Greg Abbott of Texas, questioned the president's authority.

"The State of Texas believes no international court supersedes the laws of Texas or the laws of the United States," Mr. Strickland said. "We respectfully believe the executive determination exceeds the constitutional bounds for federal authority."

Sandra Babcock, a Minnesota lawyer who represents the government of Mexico, said she had no doubt that the president was authorized to instruct state courts to reopen Mr. Medellín's case and 50 others.

"The law is on our side," Ms. Babcock said. "The president is on our side. I keep having to slap myself."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 1986; aliens; babcock; capitalpunishment; courtofjustice; courts; crime; crybabies; deathpenalty; deathrow; debevoiseplimpton; donalddonovan; donaldfdonovan; dondonovan; donfdonovan; donovan; exodus20; geopolitics; haroldhongjukoh; haroldkoh; harryhongjukoh; harrykoh; icc; icj; international; internationalcourt; joseernestomedellin; josemedellin; josernestomedelln; josmedelln; koh; medellin; medelln; meowmix007; mexico; murder; nicaragua; petejspiro; peterjspiro; peterspiro; petespiro; rats; sandrababcock; scotus; sorelosers; sovereignity; spiro; statesrights; swiftsurepunishment; texas; thehague; un; unitednations; usa
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 221-231 next last
To: stylin19a
Looks like the US is only withdrawing from the optional protocol......sigh........ I guess it's a start.

That's okay, the consular convention, in of itself, is fine. All it requires is that foreigners be given access to their consular officials.

141 posted on 03/10/2005 10:10:11 AM PST by Modernman ("Normally, I don't listen to women, or doctors." - Captain Hero)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

its about frikin time.....


142 posted on 03/10/2005 10:14:58 AM PST by MikefromOhio (Get real and show some class.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
I have to ask myself why was this agreement in place.

I suspect that the US wanted to be able for a US citizen if arrested in another country would have access to the US consulate and in quid-pro-quo that meant that those countries foreigners would also have access to their consulate so that they could get advice and help from the consulate on legal issues or who to use in a strange country.

I do not agree about people in the US illegally getting a second shot in court which they will probably get convicted again in court to roll the dice and see if they can be acquitted.

But, the agreement was in place and I do think that Americans abroad might find it harder to contact a consulate if they get into trouble in the near future.

Hopefully agreements are in place to still protect the American public and this was just a redundant agreement that gave an open door into American people into an international court and probably lawsuits which America wisely decided to remove itself from the policy. I guess we will see the ramifications of this in the future where it was a bad idea in the MSM if their were no redundant agreements where American 'A' is not allowed to contact a consulate for advice and help and the MSM gets to blame Bush for the backing out of the policy.

Guess we will have to wait and see.
143 posted on 03/10/2005 10:23:00 AM PST by PureTrouble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Peter J. Spiro, a law professor at the University of Georgia, said the withdrawal was unbecoming.
Who is this horses ass and why is he even being quoted.
Let me guess... NY Times.... must need liberal anti Bush
and anti American sound bite. Who cares what some loser from U of Georgia thinks.
144 posted on 03/10/2005 10:26:52 AM PST by ghitma (MeClaudius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: piasa

Thanks!


145 posted on 03/10/2005 10:27:17 AM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
"Peter J. Spiro, a law professor at the University of Georgia, said the withdrawal was unbecoming.

"It's a sore-loser kind of move," Professor Spiro said. "If we can't win, we're not going to play."

The NYT really had to search for someone with this viewpoint, so much so they'd interview an unknown hack at a second-rate school.

146 posted on 03/10/2005 11:15:45 AM PST by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: adam_az
"It's a sore-loser kind of move," Professor Spiro said. "If we can't win, we're not going to play."

On what basis do these people figure that we have to do what other countries or elites tell us to do? Where are the boundaries? THe lack of respect for boundaries and our expression is one of the most growth stunting dysfunctional approach these people have.

what part of sovereign don't they understand? It's OUR FOOTBALL FIELD FOR GOD's SAKE!

147 posted on 03/10/2005 11:23:58 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: A Citizen Reporter

International recognizes sovereignty and civil disobedience - as if there was anything to obey anyhow. These people have a different meaning for international law. IT's code word for international bullies.


148 posted on 03/10/2005 11:25:25 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: adam_az
Anyone who aids and abetts subjugating the US and State Constitutions to an International (Kangaroo) Court should be prosecuted for treason!

Marked Man - "Don't Tread On Me"
149 posted on 03/10/2005 11:26:15 AM PST by markedman (Lay me down to a watery grave)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TitansAFC

I wonder if the Supreme Court is now going to reverse this policy and surrender its work officialy to this body... After all, isn't it what they just did?


150 posted on 03/10/2005 11:26:26 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Finally! The duly elected or appointed representatives of this country must recognize and defend it's sovereignty without regard to international pressures. There's a reason the USA is the only superpower, and it ain't because we went around the world asking how we should conduct ourselves.
151 posted on 03/10/2005 11:32:32 AM PST by TChris (Lousy homophobic FReeper troll, religious right, VRWC member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Balkans

ping


152 posted on 03/10/2005 11:35:52 AM PST by montyspython
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Peter J. Spiro, a law professor at the University of Georgia, said the withdrawal was unbecoming.

"It's a sore-loser kind of move," Professor Spiro said. "If we can't win, we're not going to play."

He is the one that is a sore-loser. I think I will walk over to his office and tell him so. What a moroon!

153 posted on 03/10/2005 11:39:05 AM PST by CFW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Peter J. Spiro, a law professor at the University of Georgia, said the withdrawal was unbecoming. "It's a sore-loser kind of move," Professor Spiro said. "If we can't win, we're not going to play."

Uh.... "unbecoming"?

Why is it that people who apparently think they are very smart so often say things that sound so stupid?

Should we remain in a treaty for appearances' sake? Because to withdraw would be "unbecoming"? Is this the expert legal opinion of law professor Spiro? That it's wise to remain in treaties for reasons of tact?

Moronic.

154 posted on 03/10/2005 11:39:52 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The President is making it crystal clear that he will tolerate NO interference in the US judicial system.
155 posted on 03/10/2005 11:41:02 AM PST by teletech (Friends don't let friends vote DemocRAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
"International adjudication is an important tool in a post-cold-war, post-9/11 world," Dean Koh said.

Actual quote: ""International adjudication is an important tool [for screwing over the United States] in a post-cold-war, post-9/11 world," Dean Koh said.
156 posted on 03/10/2005 11:43:19 AM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: teletech

Message to President Bush:

Good move, Mr. President!

Now, please, wake up and realize that the 'Law of the Sea' Treaty is even worse and drop your support for it.


157 posted on 03/10/2005 11:43:36 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Freedom. Brought to you by the grace of God and the Red, White and Blue...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: EternalVigilance
Message to President Bush:

Good move, Mr. President!

Now, please, wake up and realize that the 'Law of the Sea' Treaty is even worse and drop your support for it.

I wonder how long it will be before we (USA) are accused of be isolationists. This move was LONG OVERDUE!

158 posted on 03/10/2005 11:47:49 AM PST by teletech (Friends don't let friends vote DemocRAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Happy2BMe

You know, you really gotta hand it to Texas! When the President doesn't know his job and the Constitution, Apparently some patriots in Texas are capable of showing him the way! Oorah for Texas!


159 posted on 03/10/2005 12:04:24 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Now can we dump the UN, too?


160 posted on 03/10/2005 12:05:49 PM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 221-231 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson