Opinion: Apple -- Here to Stay

MacCentral ^ | March 08, 2005 | Don Tennant

[r5boston]

Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."

That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.

[Bush2000]

In logic, stating the syllogism correctly is the FIRST step... and assumptions are not allowed.

Look, there's no shame in admitting that he kicked your ass. You and AR tried to argue commutativity -- and you got your head handed to you. Admit it and move on.

[Bush2000]

I sincerely believe that Mac OS X is better than Windows for most users

Yeah, no wonder. You spend every waking hour shilling for Apple.

If the goal is productivity, Mac OS X usually beats Windows thoroughly.

Put that dope back in your pipe dream and smoke it. The Mac doesn't offer any productivity advantage.

[Bush2000]

HEADLINE: Most of Xerox's Suit Against Apple Barred BYLINE: By ANDREW POLLACK, Special to The New York Times DATELINE: SAN FRANCISCO, March 23

BODY: A Federal judge today dismissed almost all the closely watched copyright lawsuit filed by the Xerox Corporation against Apple Computer Inc.

In what appears to be a sweeping victory for Apple,Judge Vaughn R. Walker of the Federal District Court in San Francisco threw out five of the six counts in Xerox's lawsuit, saying, in essence, that Xerox's complaints were inappropriate for a variety of legal reasons.

Xerox sued Apple in December, seeking more than $150 million in damages.It asserted that the screen display of Apple's Macintosh computer unlawfully used copyrighted technology that Xerox had developed and incorporated in a computer called the Star, which was introduced in 1981, three years before the Macintosh.

''We welcome the ruling in every way,'' said a jubilant Jack E. Brown of Brown & Bain, the law firm representing Apple, which had filed a motion to have the case dismissed. Even if Xerox prevails on the one count it can still pursue, it cannot win much because the judge threw out all the counts seeking damages, attorneys involved in the case said.

A Xerox spokesman said the company planned to appeal. ''The ruling doesnot mean Apple hasn't taken substantial portions of the Star and claimed them as their own,'' a statement issued by Xerox said. ''The court merely held, we believe erroneously, that Xerox does not have standing to present facts in support of our contention.''

The Xerox lawsuit is one of many copyright suits that are splitting the computer software industry. A major issue is the right to the screen displays known as graphical user interfaces - a dashboard of sorts by which a user controls the computer.

A key appeal of the Macintosh is its ease of use, thanks in part toa display that allows users to perform tasks by pointing at symbols onthe screen and to divide the screen into separate ''windows,'' each containing a different document or program. Now, virtually all computer companiesare adopting similar screen displays. No one disputes that many of the ideas behind such interfaces were born at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center in the 1970's, although the Star was not a marketing success. But the question of how similar one interface has to be to another to constitute copyright infringement remains unanswered.

---

Apple won this on a technicality. Why can't you accept this simple fact? Or are you so 'embedded' in Apple's rear end that you can't admit it?!?

[Swordmaker]

Educate your friends. There are plenty of free automated tools for dealing with those issues, among which MS offers a superb one (Anti-Spyware Beta). The MS tool locks down the registry and prevents unauthorized changes. So you're complaining about a non-issue.

It's a non-issue for experienced Windows users... but that does NOT describe a lot of users. A lot of people buy a computer expecting an appliance that will work out of the box.

YOU tell that it's a "non-issue" to an elderly woman who got her computer so she could get pics of her g'kids and look up information about flowers for her garden.

Nobody told HER that she had to download ("What's download?") AVG Anti-virus ("You mean my computer can get a cold?"), MS Anti-spyware ("SPIES!? Oh, My.") and probably Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-aware... and probably eventually CWShredder, BEFORE she can safely use her computer.

Then tell her about the alerts that will be popping up as various things attempt to change her computer... and convince her that she should reject all of them. Tell her about keeping security up-to-date by updating the OS.

Maybe she's lucky and has computer guru to set it up for her... but a lot don't. It doesn't take too many bad pop-ups, her home page getting hijacked, and other problems before she gives up in frustration.

Soon she is terrified of the computer and it will collect dust.

A friend bought his 83 year old mother a brand new mid-range Dell... and after numerous visits and calls of frustration... the computer was collecting dust. She was upset everytime she looked at it. She would not touch it.

I took a spare iMac I had sitting here and convinced her to try it for a week. At the end of the week she had her son take her to the Apple Store in Sacramento and bought herself an eMAc. That was two years ago. She is happily surfing the net, getting and sending pics of her g'kids and a couple of months ago bought a digital camera and is now sending pics of her garden to her friends. She hooked up the camera the first time by herself.

Her son took home the Dell... and found it infested with Cool Web Search and several other Ad poppers. Her home page had been hijacked by a porn site... something she could not stomach. He cleaned it up by wiping the HD and restoring to factory condition and sold it. He's shopping for a Mac to replace his Dell.

[HAL9000]

The Mac doesn't offer any productivity advantage.

Yes it does. The Mac software is designed much better and is easier to use, resulting in improved personal productivity.

Security is also a big factor in productivity, despite your denials. Just think about all the time Windows users spend farting around with anti-virus and anti-spyware software. Mac users can spend that time getting real work done - or pursuing leisure activities.

[Swordmaker]

A Xerox spokesman said the company planned to appeal. ''The ruling doesnot mean Apple hasn't taken substantial portions of the Star and claimed them as their own,'' a statement issued by Xerox said. ''The court merely held, we believe erroneously, that Xerox does not have standing to present facts in support of our contention.''

Xerox did not file an appeal... if it was merely a technicality, why not?

And what was that technicality, Bush? It wasn't filing too late.

You want to believe the Xerox attorney's spin... but if he was correct, they would have appealed. They didn't. The case was dismissed with prejudice...the could not refile with a different theory.

[Swordmaker]

Just think about all the time Windows users spend farting around with anti-virus and anti-spyware software. Mac users can spend that time getting real work done - or pursuing leisure activities.

They think that keeping spyware off their computer and getting their home page back IS being productive.

[HAL9000]

They think that keeping spyware off their computer and getting their home page back IS being productive.

Some people earn money by running spyware removal software. They must tout Windows in order to continue in their useless occupation. I think a couple of them are on this thread.

[Richard Kimball]

Speaking of home pages, I shot some high school track this week. I get tickled at all the guys who tout Windows. I got the photos, and after editing in Photoshop, it took me about 10 minutes to post a web gallery.

I just do the photogaphy at nights and on the weekends, but using my .Mac account to get photos posted quickly, I've picked up four weddings and sold several hundred dollars worth of sports photos this month. I'm also selling slide show DVDs of the football season for $20, and getting lots of takers. Photoshop and Noise Ninja are the only programs I've purchased. The DVD software, iPhoto, and other stuff came with the Mac. At work, I just got a new Pentium 4 with XP, and with me doing absolutely no modifications, Word crashed the first three times I ran it. I guess I'm just too stoopid to run Windows.

[Swordmaker]

Some people earn money by running spyware removal software. They must tout Windows in order to continue in their useless occupation. I think a couple of them are on this thread.

Well, considering i just made $750 cleaning up and immunizing five computers that were heavily infested with spyware for a new client, I might be one of those... Except I suggested that if he REALLY wanted to never have this happen again, he should consider switching to Macintosh.

One of his computers required forty minutes after boot up before it could be used. Near as I could tell two different hijackers were fighting over the home page... it kept changing... back and forth. The damn thing had 37 distinct spyware packages ... 467 spyware files, cookies, registry entries. 128 Ad ware components.... and seven trojans. The worst was two different installations of Cool Web Search. MS Anti-spyware wouldn't even run. I booted it into safe mode and there were 13 of those spyware programs running in Safe mode! Something was preventing the installation of any of the effective anti-spyware apps. I went dumpster diving and started eliminating things by hand in the Registry. I got it so I could boot into safe mode with nothing running and then installed and ran Spybot Search and Destroy (MS AS would still not install). after that ran and did its thing MS anti-spyware finally would install... and it found even more. BOTH however, left two different installations Cool Web Search which immediately started re-installing themselves when the system was booted back into normal mode. That's when I learned that it was Cool Web Search that was arguing, one installation with the other installation, about which got to hijack the home page. Microsoft Anti-spy was popping warnings about attempted changes to the home page every second or two. CWShredder got all but one of two files of that... and Ad-Aware got the final pieces. AVG got the trojans... but their Norton had been totally ineffectual in preventing all this.

The better way would have been to wipe and restore... but there was data all over that HD that they needed... and no coherent organization to make backing up easy.

None of their other computers were anywhere as badly infected as this one was.

I turned their hardware firewall on.

[Swordmaker]

Except that, when you open the iPod case, yourself, you void the warranty. Talk about ridiculous designs.

WHY WOULD YOU DO SUCH A STUPID THING? Apple will replace your battery for no charge (including shipping, both ways) if your battery dies while the warranty is still in effect.

You misinterpreted what LVD is saying. He's saying that, given the competition, the iPod is overpriced. That is factually accurate -- but it remains to be seen whether price is a significant enough factor to preserve or suppress Apple market share. You may not realize this but Apple knows that it has saturated the MP3 player market, though, and its introduction of lower-priced models is a half-hearted response. Face it: Apple never met a market that it couldn't price itself out of. The same will be true of iPod. And it's a shame.

You are such a Microsoftie you cannot even give Apple kudos where they have earned them. IF the iPod were overpriced, people would stop buying them and buy the competition's player. Apple is still having trouble meeting demand...

Apple has sold 14,000,000 iPods up to mid January... in a world populated by 5,000,000,000 people - that is approaching 3 tenths of one percent of the populations. Now before you point out that not everyone of 5 billion will want or buy an iPod, it shows how idiotic your claim of a saturated market really is.

Apple has expanded and differentiating its line of iPods. They are still selling every iPod they can make... and inventories are not climbing as they would in a "saturated market" . Instead demand is increasing after three years.

Your even more idiotic claim that Apple is pricing itself out of this "saturated market" by offering lower priced iPods is absurd on its face.

[Swordmaker]

he kicked your ass.

In your dreams...

[I_dmc]

Apple did things first and did them well and did them right.

A common misconception.  The famed GUI that Apple invented wasn't invented by Apple at all.  One of the folks from Xerox PARC went on to Apple.  Not all did.  If you've ever seen the GEM operating system, you'd have to ask how they could do that without being sued by Apple.  Well.....they were.  But not for the basic GUI, but for enhancements that Apple did invent, like the wastebasket.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/6148/gem.html

[I_dmc]

I think it was amazing that Gates kept developing Mac software and even put millions into apple.

He had to.  One has to have a competitor to avoid the government going after you for being a monopoly.

[I_dmc]

Well, turnabout is fair play. Apple isn't exactly known for cooperating with anyone.

[I_dmc]

You make it sound like it was Apple's idea to "throw out the trash". Motorola saw no future in trying to expand its line of CISC processors, the 68xxx family and instead developed a new RISC processor, the "G" family. The 68xxx family is still alive and well, mostly in embedded applications. Another interesting point. It is the base processor family for what is really the Most Used Computer Operating System. Hint, its not Windows or Mac O/S, or any flavor of Unix, but you will find it under your hood.

[I_dmc]

With ya! I still occasionally browse the amiga forums to see whats up. Not much, usually. OS4.0 is near and one can buy an AmigaOne. The Amiga Community still lives, though mostly in Europe.

[I_dmc]

Correction: IBM attempted to go proprietary with the PS/2 and the MicroChannel architecture, but Compaq developed the Extended ISA bus (EISA), which like ISA, was open, and the rest is history.

[I_dmc]

Very good post.

[bigsigh]

It's a great country when you have to fund your competition, : ).