WINNING THE BORDER BATTLE (Immigration Reform)

New York Post ^ | December 9, 2004 | Tamar Jacoby

[beckaz]

December 9, 2004 -- THE immigration wars have started again in Washington, with this round, like the last, pitting mainly Republicans against Republicans: conservative Republicans in the House vs. President George W. Bush. The charge from the right: that when it comes to immigration, the president is soft on enforcement.

The only trouble is it isn't true. The president's plan for a guest-worker program — first proposed in January and, according to the White House, one of its priorities for the coming year — is in no way antithetical to enhanced enforcement. On the contrary, better enforcement is the heart and soul of Bush's package, and his principles are the only path to the tighter, more secure borders we need.

Powerful House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, leading the charge in Congress, used the fight over the 9/11 intelligence bill to send a shot across the White House's bow. Though he lost this round — his provisions were stripped out of the bill — he has vowed to continue the fight in the new Congress. Many of the immigration provisions he is championing — including denying drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants — sound reasonable enough and might make sense if our border policy were functional. But they won't work and will only make things worse unless we fix the system with reforms of the kind the president proposes

[beckaz]

I disagree with this opinion. Yes, the issue is more complicated than driver licenses and the like. But a radical approach is needed to this problem.
Arguments like "it is gonna happen anyway, and many people will continue to come anyway, and the economy can't function without them....." don't cut it with me. Looking forward to the debate next year, hope it is not shunned in D.C.

Thoughts??

[MikefromOhio]

I think the Congress needs to split the issues of Immigration reform and Intel reform and then prioritize the issues, get a working plan, avoid filling it with pork and enact it and enforce it vigorously....

It doesnt make any sense to muddle the two issues....

I honestly dont see the President being tough of Immigration, but let's just see what happens in the soon to start 2nd term....

[stopem]

You want "thoughts"? I will try to contain myself :)

The GREEDY employers are making all of us PAY so they can get CHEAP labor and we all are sick and tired of it!

The illegals need to go home and now! They need to be arrested and sent back home to Fox. He needs to take care of HIS problems NOT US Citizens!! I am thoroughly disgusted with the way Bush is "handling this"!

I am very angry and I am NOT the only Republican who is.

Let the dims take their little friends with them and move to mexico since they are for illegal entry. That would kill two birds with one stone.

See I told you you dont want my thoughts LOL!

[junta]

If writers were to be displaced by others making $5.15 and hour this clown Jacoby and her liberal friends would be the first calling for mass deportations. But since Jacoby and not a few other "conservatives" can get some cheap moral indignation at their fellow citizens and make money doing so we are stuck with this nonsense of social engineering of mass immigration.

[beckaz]

I want your thoughts and mine and those of over 50% of the public to make it to the Prez's ears and Rove's and Congress. We (and many Dems) are being sandbagged on this issue by the local, state and federal govmnts.

[datura]

I might as well say it: Border control? Simple - just build a wall like the one Israel is building (not the fence portion, the WALL) and then require that anyone crossing the border do so at checkpoints. Failure to use the checkpoints earns you a case of lead poisoning.

There, border controlled.

[junta]

Exactly. We are on a path to destruction and all we get in response is some silly liberal bleating of "racist" this and "racist" that. The economic arguments for mass migration has about been used up and now conservatives are down to hate speech, how pathetic. You are right its time to build that wall.

[Havoc]

America is really angry right now at the politicians and it's going to be more pronounced when they return and start in with the dodges again. These guys are a bunch of morons trying to pull the wool and thinking they're getting by with something.
America isn't standing for a mere pat on the head and half measures or hollow actions and words. The president, the parties and this writer evidently think that the same old propaganda still works with people who've announced over and over for the last several weeks that they know the politicians will say one thing and do quite another because of "money" - CSpan has been awash in the past week with people who have it right - there's a lot of profit in illegal labor and none of the politicians (or just the republicans to hear some) want to put a stop to it because it's profitable to them.

The public is aware, they're losing their jobs to foreigners, they can't find anything good to replace them. They've had it with the greedy and the politicians and they're sounding off. And they're getting nastier by the day. You can hear it day by day. It just keeps growing worse. Which Is why I say these guys are morons thinking that they're running for cover and nobody will be the wiser. People are angry precisely because they are the wiser. And the longer they run from this and try to pull these stunts, the greater the risk of great harm. We're at war people.. Conventional and economic. Some of ya'll out there need to wake up and think about what that means. If the politicians won't stand up for the people, they are standing against them. And that ain't a smart place to be in the midst of a war.

[ARCADIA]

Thoughts??

It is a lame arguement.

"Many of the immigration provisions he is championing — including denying drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants — sound reasonable enough and might make sense if our border policy were functional."

It is time to make the borders functional.
Globalism is just another word for socialism.

[SolutionsOnly]

***" But a radical approach is needed to this problem."***"

By 'radical approach' might you mean 'enforcing the law'?

[stopem]

I agree, they need to hear the thoughts of their loyal supporters!!

[conservativecorner]

Here's an idea that the writer doesn't mention, but the constitution does. Use whatever resources are necessary to shut down the border. I don't want to hear how many agents we have added to the Border Patrol. Obviously it's not enough. I understand that the possibility of removing all the illegals from this country isn't going to happen, so come up with a plan to register these people as guest workers, but the bill also has to include throwing whatever resources are necessary to shut down the border as tight as a Tupperware bowl. If we do this, then anyone caught without the proper papers will immediately be deported with no chance at ever getting back into America.
As it stands right now if you are caught and deported, you can just traipse back across the border into this country once again because of our porous border policies.

[Spiff]

I don't want to hear how many agents we have added to the Border Patrol.

We've added none. According to T.J. Bonner, President of the U.S. Border Patrol Council, the Border Patrol's budget was CUT and they lost 1,000 agents because of it. Add that to the attrition they've seen and we're LOSING GROUND. The President, his administration, and the Congress are NOT SERIOUS about controlling or securing the border. Their recent "crackdown" was smoke and mirrors right before the election and it is over now. I live a few miles from the border in Cochise County, Arizona - the most popular crossing point for border intruders - and I can tell you from direct observation that the stream of invaders is unabated.

[ZULU]

Tancredo et al should take their case to the public via FOX News, the Internet and talk shows.

Name names in Congress. Investigate who pays their campaign contributions.

Expose these creeps and public opinion will do the - shame them into executing the primary responsibility 0f government - Defending the borders.

[conservativecorner]

It makes me sick to know this fact. We have no idea whether these illegals mean us harm or not, and nobody is doing a damn thing about it. The writer can slam Sensenbrenner, but he and others are making headlines and trying to change policy regarding immigration. Without these patriots we have zero chance of any change in policy because big business likes cheap labor.

I can't understand the thinking regarding the illegals doing jobs that no one else wants either. Take away the illegals, and because of the law of supply and demand you immediately increase wages for Americans who would then be willing to do those jobs. Meanwhile the unions collect their dues and stay silent regarding this issue.

[William Terrell]

I know that it is rude to quote yourself, but I've never been accused of being especially polite. I posted this to another thread and it seems appropriate here. Plus, it saves me work.

We have too many "legals", given one pass or another, here that refuse to assimilate. Those that want to come to be an American will assimilate.

Those who want to come to suck off the tit, make money where opportunities are lacking at home, flee from oppression, happened to have helped the US in a conflict, or plan to gather political power for their own purposes do not assimilate.

Practically all we've had immigrate in the last few decades have been the latter kind. We either get tough, mean and heartless or we lose our country and it is not America anymore.

If you are under 60, it could happen in your lifetime. Additionally, please remember, full welfare program benefits are given regardless of how much one pays, or hasn't paid, into the FICA and income taxes.

What's real is that if nothing "can be done" when we have laws on the books, immigration procedure in place, identification of the majority of illegals in the country on record, nothing "can be done" when we have "guest workers" and millions of them.

No amount of paper trails or number of agents to handle such trails will actually then be possible to handle the problem. Any identification that has been made or conceptualized, including electronic and DNA sampling models, to date can be forged.

Illegal immigration was a trickle before Reagan ordered his amnesty and became a flood thereafter. There has already been a flood since Mr. Bush even breathed his intentions.

I don't understand how in the world people think that providing more paperwork will solve the problem. It doesn't "track" anything, because it takes personnel to administer the process.

I know why people think so, though. We have been slowly sensitized away from being "mean" and toward being all inclusive, and have become unwilling to take the steps necessary to remedy such a mature problem.

A feel-good approach causes no self-confrontation and is comfortable, whereas the approach to remedy that mature situation is painful and, worse, politically incorrect.

A stone rolling down the hill is easy to stop when it starts its roll, but becomes harder as it gains momentum. Halfway down the hill, it take force, three quarters of the way down the hill, it becomes expensive.

There is one inexpensive way left to us, in my opinion. And it's just how mean we must get at this hour. I don't consider that my opinion; it is cold truth. You are free to disagree, but you will be disagreeing with natural and physical laws to the contrary.

10 holding facilities, of whatever size, in the US, with one cargo rated aircraft active and another in reserve. Crews for both aircraft and personnel for the facilities.

One, or three, holding facilities near the Mexican border served by six buses and crews for each, and personnel for those facilities. The buses remove the Mexican aliens to approximately the center of Mexico and release them.

If the Mexican government takes umbrage, we can offer to turn their country into a ceramic bowl.

The jobs and the facilities can be made temporary and the personnel be temporary. After a while there won't be enough to justify them, and there won't be any flood over the border only to face this.

With all the other benefits, it additionally denies a camouflaged entry for terrorists, which terrorist are currently using it as such.

This takes care of our Mexican brothers and sisters. Similar facilities can be attached to monitor other illegal immigration, particularly Middle Eastern, with longer flights planned for them.

Additionally, by legislation, we deny citizenship to any newborn on American soil, here or overseas, unless born to parents who are both citizens, born or naturalized.

We are at the point where we either do something like this or we lose what most of us have grown up to think as America is. It is either one or the other; there are no other paths. Any remedy you can think of at this point leads to one or the other.

I vote to preserve my country, as founded. I do not want to look back and wail, "We should have done it while we could!".

I'm not hysterical and I'm dead serious. This is my objective opinion reached in the grip of no other emotion or state of mind than patriotism

[Dane]

The GREEDY employers are making all of us PAY so they can get CHEAP labor and we all are sick and tired of it!

Paging Karl Marx, paging Karl Marx.

[blackeagle]

bump

[Ron H.]

It doesnt make any sense to muddle the two issues....

Sure sounds as you really don't have a handle on the issues at hand. The two issues are so intertwined that you can't really expect them to be dealt with as separate issues. They affect each other rather dramatically.