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I disagree with this opinion. Yes, the issue is more complicated than driver licenses and the like. But a radical approach is needed to this problem.
Arguments like "it is gonna happen anyway, and many people will continue to come anyway, and the economy can't function without them....." don't cut it with me. Looking forward to the debate next year, hope it is not shunned in D.C.

Thoughts??

1 posted on 12/09/2004 4:24:40 AM PST by beckaz
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To: beckaz

I think the Congress needs to split the issues of Immigration reform and Intel reform and then prioritize the issues, get a working plan, avoid filling it with pork and enact it and enforce it vigorously....

It doesnt make any sense to muddle the two issues....

I honestly dont see the President being tough of Immigration, but let's just see what happens in the soon to start 2nd term....


2 posted on 12/09/2004 4:32:15 AM PST by MikefromOhio (32 days until I can leave Iraq for good....)
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To: beckaz

You want "thoughts"? I will try to contain myself :)

The GREEDY employers are making all of us PAY so they can get CHEAP labor and we all are sick and tired of it!

The illegals need to go home and now! They need to be arrested and sent back home to Fox. He needs to take care of HIS problems NOT US Citizens!! I am thoroughly disgusted with the way Bush is "handling this"!

I am very angry and I am NOT the only Republican who is.

Let the dims take their little friends with them and move to mexico since they are for illegal entry. That would kill two birds with one stone.

See I told you you dont want my thoughts LOL!


3 posted on 12/09/2004 4:35:32 AM PST by stopem
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To: beckaz

If writers were to be displaced by others making $5.15 and hour this clown Jacoby and her liberal friends would be the first calling for mass deportations. But since Jacoby and not a few other "conservatives" can get some cheap moral indignation at their fellow citizens and make money doing so we are stuck with this nonsense of social engineering of mass immigration.


4 posted on 12/09/2004 4:38:41 AM PST by junta (junta, "is one uppity cracker")
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To: beckaz

America is really angry right now at the politicians and it's going to be more pronounced when they return and start in with the dodges again. These guys are a bunch of morons trying to pull the wool and thinking they're getting by with something.
America isn't standing for a mere pat on the head and half measures or hollow actions and words. The president, the parties and this writer evidently think that the same old propaganda still works with people who've announced over and over for the last several weeks that they know the politicians will say one thing and do quite another because of "money" - CSpan has been awash in the past week with people who have it right - there's a lot of profit in illegal labor and none of the politicians (or just the republicans to hear some) want to put a stop to it because it's profitable to them.

The public is aware, they're losing their jobs to foreigners, they can't find anything good to replace them. They've had it with the greedy and the politicians and they're sounding off. And they're getting nastier by the day. You can hear it day by day. It just keeps growing worse. Which Is why I say these guys are morons thinking that they're running for cover and nobody will be the wiser. People are angry precisely because they are the wiser. And the longer they run from this and try to pull these stunts, the greater the risk of great harm. We're at war people.. Conventional and economic. Some of ya'll out there need to wake up and think about what that means. If the politicians won't stand up for the people, they are standing against them. And that ain't a smart place to be in the midst of a war.


8 posted on 12/09/2004 4:56:55 AM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade.)
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To: beckaz
Thoughts??

It is a lame arguement.

"Many of the immigration provisions he is championing — including denying drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants — sound reasonable enough and might make sense if our border policy were functional."

It is time to make the borders functional.
Globalism is just another word for socialism.
9 posted on 12/09/2004 4:57:11 AM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: beckaz
***" But a radical approach is needed to this problem."***"

By 'radical approach' might you mean 'enforcing the law'?

10 posted on 12/09/2004 5:06:40 AM PST by SolutionsOnly
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To: beckaz
Here's an idea that the writer doesn't mention, but the constitution does. Use whatever resources are necessary to shut down the border. I don't want to hear how many agents we have added to the Border Patrol. Obviously it's not enough. I understand that the possibility of removing all the illegals from this country isn't going to happen, so come up with a plan to register these people as guest workers, but the bill also has to include throwing whatever resources are necessary to shut down the border as tight as a Tupperware bowl. If we do this, then anyone caught without the proper papers will immediately be deported with no chance at ever getting back into America.
As it stands right now if you are caught and deported, you can just traipse back across the border into this country once again because of our porous border policies.
13 posted on 12/09/2004 5:19:42 AM PST by conservativecorner
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To: beckaz

Tancredo et al should take their case to the public via FOX News, the Internet and talk shows.

Name names in Congress. Investigate who pays their campaign contributions.

Expose these creeps and public opinion will do the - shame them into executing the primary responsibility 0f government - Defending the borders.


15 posted on 12/09/2004 5:41:32 AM PST by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: beckaz
I know that it is rude to quote yourself, but I've never been accused of being especially polite. I posted this to another thread and it seems appropriate here. Plus, it saves me work.

We have too many "legals", given one pass or another, here that refuse to assimilate. Those that want to come to be an American will assimilate.

Those who want to come to suck off the tit, make money where opportunities are lacking at home, flee from oppression, happened to have helped the US in a conflict, or plan to gather political power for their own purposes do not assimilate.

Practically all we've had immigrate in the last few decades have been the latter kind. We either get tough, mean and heartless or we lose our country and it is not America anymore.

If you are under 60, it could happen in your lifetime. Additionally, please remember, full welfare program benefits are given regardless of how much one pays, or hasn't paid, into the FICA and income taxes.

What's real is that if nothing "can be done" when we have laws on the books, immigration procedure in place, identification of the majority of illegals in the country on record, nothing "can be done" when we have "guest workers" and millions of them.

No amount of paper trails or number of agents to handle such trails will actually then be possible to handle the problem. Any identification that has been made or conceptualized, including electronic and DNA sampling models, to date can be forged.

Illegal immigration was a trickle before Reagan ordered his amnesty and became a flood thereafter. There has already been a flood since Mr. Bush even breathed his intentions.

I don't understand how in the world people think that providing more paperwork will solve the problem. It doesn't "track" anything, because it takes personnel to administer the process.

I know why people think so, though. We have been slowly sensitized away from being "mean" and toward being all inclusive, and have become unwilling to take the steps necessary to remedy such a mature problem.

A feel-good approach causes no self-confrontation and is comfortable, whereas the approach to remedy that mature situation is painful and, worse, politically incorrect.

A stone rolling down the hill is easy to stop when it starts its roll, but becomes harder as it gains momentum. Halfway down the hill, it take force, three quarters of the way down the hill, it becomes expensive.

There is one inexpensive way left to us, in my opinion. And it's just how mean we must get at this hour. I don't consider that my opinion; it is cold truth. You are free to disagree, but you will be disagreeing with natural and physical laws to the contrary.

10 holding facilities, of whatever size, in the US, with one cargo rated aircraft active and another in reserve. Crews for both aircraft and personnel for the facilities.

One, or three, holding facilities near the Mexican border served by six buses and crews for each, and personnel for those facilities. The buses remove the Mexican aliens to approximately the center of Mexico and release them.

If the Mexican government takes umbrage, we can offer to turn their country into a ceramic bowl.

The jobs and the facilities can be made temporary and the personnel be temporary. After a while there won't be enough to justify them, and there won't be any flood over the border only to face this.

With all the other benefits, it additionally denies a camouflaged entry for terrorists, which terrorist are currently using it as such.

This takes care of our Mexican brothers and sisters. Similar facilities can be attached to monitor other illegal immigration, particularly Middle Eastern, with longer flights planned for them.

Additionally, by legislation, we deny citizenship to any newborn on American soil, here or overseas, unless born to parents who are both citizens, born or naturalized.

We are at the point where we either do something like this or we lose what most of us have grown up to think as America is. It is either one or the other; there are no other paths. Any remedy you can think of at this point leads to one or the other.

I vote to preserve my country, as founded. I do not want to look back and wail, "We should have done it while we could!".

I'm not hysterical and I'm dead serious. This is my objective opinion reached in the grip of no other emotion or state of mind than patriotism

17 posted on 12/09/2004 7:59:15 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: beckaz

bump


19 posted on 12/09/2004 8:35:24 AM PST by blackeagle
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To: beckaz

Jacoby has been spouting this forever. She's a liberal who has been on the Dennis Miller show. He doesn't agree with her, either.

NEW POLL UP!

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

Do you support legislation that would secure our borders and reform immigration law?

Yes 96% 3151 votes

No 4% 141 votes

Total: 3292 votes


21 posted on 12/09/2004 9:06:00 AM PST by AuntB (Every person who enters the U.S. illegally--from anywhere--increases the likelihood of another 9/11)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


22 posted on 12/09/2004 9:29:33 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: beckaz

Until we control our own borders, all the rest doesn't matter.

What's wrong with these people? Are they all bought and paid for?


23 posted on 12/09/2004 9:35:03 AM PST by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a death cult that must end. Save your time...)
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To: beckaz

A new york liberal eletist who has no idea what its like to live on the border with Mexico. The problem has a simple answer 1) ENFORCE THE LAW WITH FINES FOR EMPLOYERS THAT HIRE ILLEGALS AND 2)TAKE AWAY ALL BENEFITS FOR THOSE THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY. ITS THAT SIMPLE DONT NEED TO ROUND ANYONE UP THEY WILL LEAVE WILLINGLY BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO WORK AND THEY WILL NOT RECIEVE THE WELFARE.


27 posted on 12/09/2004 10:07:17 AM PST by sasafras (sasafras (The road to hell is paved with good intentions))
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To: beckaz

if Israel can erect a wall, why can't we?


30 posted on 12/09/2004 10:44:52 AM PST by Jon Alvarez
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To: beckaz

31 posted on 12/09/2004 10:45:09 AM PST by cartoonistx
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To: beckaz

32 posted on 12/09/2004 10:45:32 AM PST by cartoonistx
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To: beckaz
Time after time President Fox has said that he can't wait until Mexico and America are one nation. This has been hushed up by the media, and ignored by those who should know better.

Illegal immigration is just like gay marriage in Canada: the politicians are ignoring the wishes of the voters to help put their own destructive agendas into practice.

34 posted on 12/09/2004 11:25:39 AM PST by swampfox98 (Michael Reagan: "It's time to stop the flood.")
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To: beckaz

This is just ringing the "come on up!" bell in Mexico. Nobody seriously believes the "guest workers" will ever go home. They will become citizens and more illegals will come to take the sub-minimum wage jobs THEY won't do any more.

Bienvenidos a Aztlan. Aprenda Espanol hoy, evite la prisa manana.


35 posted on 12/09/2004 11:33:41 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: beckaz
I disagree with this opinion

You should. Tamar Jacoby is the poster girl for the Treason Lobby, AKA the Open Borders Lobby.

Everything she says is designed to advance that cause. She and her buddies fought long and hard against Prop. 200 and now they're fighting to keep from being drowned out by its passage. So she engages in deceit by trying to soft-talk amnesty.

Heather MacDonald at the same outfit - the Manhattan Institute - has the right outlook. Google her and you'll be reading the anti-Tamar.

36 posted on 12/09/2004 11:54:42 AM PST by Regulator
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