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Daring to discipline (On excommunication of pro-choice Catholic pols)
http://www.nola.com ^ | Sunday, July 18, 2004 | Bruce Nolan

Posted on 07/18/2004 7:15:19 PM PDT by cpforlife.org

The original paper article headline read:
CAST OUT BY THE CHURCH

Daring to discipline

Archbishop Joseph Francis Rummel's decision to excommunicate three segregationists in 1962 is being re-examined during the debate about pro-choice Catholic politicians
Sunday, July 18, 2004
By Bruce Nolan
Staff writer

The blow fell just before Easter 1962, in a city attuned to the solemn rhythms of traditional Catholicism. On Monday of Holy Week, Joseph Francis Rummel, the aged and infirm archbishop of New Orleans, announced the excommunication of three Catholic public figures for loudly condemning his decision to integrate the archdiocese's Catholic schools.

Until they repented, Rummel declared, Leander Perez, Jackson Ricau and Una Gaillot were outside the church. New Orleans knew them well as furious public warriors against integration, familiar figures on the radio, at public rallies and in the press. They were also Catholics. But without a change of heart, Rummel said, they could not receive the Eucharist, the center of Catholic life, nor would they be buried in the embrace of their church.

Rummel's rare declaration made national news. Black Americans' struggle for civil rights was the dominant domestic story. Time and Newsweek reported the New Orleans confrontation as a showdown between a handful of racist demagogues and a principled churchman who had been pushed too far.

The moment passed, of course. Catholic schools were integrated largely without incident; the confrontation between the archbishop and the segregationists gave way to other stories: the passage of the Civil Rights Act, Lyndon Johnson's Great Society and Vietnam. Rummel died two years after issuing his edict. Perez died five years after that. Ricau and Gaillot slipped into relative obscurity.

But 42 years later, Rummel's rare disciplining of the segregationists for public opposition to their church has fresh meaning in the politics of 2004.

Today, the battleground has shifted from segregation to abortion. And threats of excommunication then have morphed into threats to deny Communion to certain Catholic politicians.

The targets now are those who defy Catholic teaching in support of abortion, doctor-assisted suicide and the use of embryos in stem-cell research. All are at the top of the list because Catholic tradition holds those practices to be wrong in every context -- clearer to bishops than the related "life issues" of war and capital punishment, which in rare circumstances may be justified.

The tension is nowhere sharper than around presumed Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic who supports a woman's right to abortion.


(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicpoliticians; excommunication; pols; prochoice
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This article followed

1962 case may not apply, scholars say

Sunday, July 18, 2004
By Bruce Nolan
Staff writer

For more than a year, some conservative Catholics have invoked the memory of former New Orleans Archbishop Joseph Francis Rummel in urging their bishops to discipline Catholic politicians who support abortion rights -- much as Rummel excommunicated a group of vocal segregationists in 1962.

But, as some scholars point out, the comparison is not apt.

Rummel did not excommunicate three Catholic public figures merely because they espoused racist views contrary to church teaching, several church officials said.

Instead, he sanctioned only those few who also challenged his authority to desegregate Catholic schools -- and to do so as a matter of Christian witness.

"The only thing comparable would be if some Catholics started a movement to insist that Catholic hospitals do abortions. That would be closer to the Rummel business," said the Rev. Tom Reese, a Jesuit writer and editor of the Catholic magazine America.

But the 1962 confrontation between Catholic politicians and Catholic bishops hovers over the politics of 2004, when Catholic politicians committed to protecting abortion as a settled constitutional right are urged by bishops to reverse course because they believe abortion is profoundly wrong.

Polls indicate that's a new interplay between church and state that unsettles a huge majority of Catholics. It is unclear whether that is because it offends their understanding of the role of the church in politics, or their relationship to the sacrament of Communion, or both.

Poll sides with Kerry

A Time magazine poll last month reported that 73 percent of 500 Catholics polled thought that presumed Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry should not be denied Communion because he supports abortion rights.

Communion and abortion became the focus of debate during the spring, when a handful of bishops -- still fewer than a dozen out of 195 Catholic dioceses -- announced they would unilaterally withhold Communion from Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

Less authoritarian

Since then, it has become clear that the vast majority of bishops, including New Orleans Archbishop Alfred Hughes and the six other Louisiana bishops, will take a less authoritarian course. They merely urge abortion-rights politicians to refrain voluntarily from Communion.

The politics of Communion has stirred widespread debate and a good deal of criticism.

Forward, a national Jewish weekly newspaper, recently called some bishops' decision to deny Communion "an affront" to democracy.

"It's bullying, and people don't like it," said Frances Kissling, president of Catholics for a Free Choice, an unofficial group that supports abortion rights.

But most pointedly, many critics saw the bishops' decision as political, not theological -- aimed at demonizing Democratic candidates to the benefit of Republican candidates.

"There are lots of Catholics who disagree with those positions, but they don't happen to be politicians. I disagree, and no one has threatened to deny me Communion," Kissling said.

In fact, Reese, a priest and journalist, is among those who wish that bishops would be more even-handed and enlarge their criticism to include abortion-rights Republicans such as former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, New York Gov. George Pataki and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Some of the bishops' critics point out that Deal Hudson, the publisher of Crisis, a conservative Catholic magazine that supports sanctioning Catholic politicians who defend abortion rights, is close to President Bush's re-election effort.

"In a highly politically charged environment, we sometimes lose sight of whether we're starting with politics and moving to religion, or starting with religion and moving to politics," said the Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, the Monroe Baptist pastor who leads the Interfaith Alliance, a liberal coalition of churches formed as a counterweight to the Christian Coalition.

Acting on faith

The Catholic Church responds that it's merely calling on its members to act out their faith. It rejects the idea that politicians can compartmentalize their faith on Sunday, but steer their decisions by individual conscience on the legislative floor on Monday.

Moreover, its hierarchy takes a different view of conscience than that usually employed by the other side -- and in this has the support of many sympathetic Protestant evangelicals, despite a long history of antipathy between the two groups on other questions.

Writing in support of Catholic bishops' decision to withhold Communion, Christianity Today, an evangelical magazine, recently editorialized that Catholics and Protestants alike are traditionally charged to inform their consciences by the light of Christian teaching.

"Luther's 'My conscience is captive to the Word of God' is foundational for us," wrote the Protestant editors.

"Kerry's notions of conscience stress individual liberty of thought, while Catholic and Protestant understandings anchor the Christian conscience to God's word and God's people," the editorial said.

But people of faith split on the meaning of abortion. And some who applaud Rummel's prophetic defense of racial equality see a clear moral difference between segregation and abortion.

"Abortion and segregation both involve a basic respect for life and sacredness of life," Gaddy said. "But I don't equate them, because in the case of abortion I can't make a blanket statement an abortion should never occur. . . . But I cannot think of any situation in which a person should have her dignity and worth stripped because of the color of her skin."

But to Catholics and evangelicals, who hold that human life begins at conception, abortion is intimately linked to the segregation that Rummel fought: They center on the same conviction -- that human life always demands respect, despite outward appearances.

In that sense, Reese said, Catholic bishops dealing with the Communion issue desperately want to avoid giving the rest of the country the impression that opposition to abortion is a faith matter peculiar to Catholics.

"The more they talk about abortion as a matter of Catholic faith, that's a disaster for the pro-life movement," Reese said. "Abortion has to be described as a human rights issue, not as a theological or religious issue."

Differences

But the debate continues precisely because it's not seen that way, even among Christians.

"I've always felt abortion debate is fundamentally a religious question, because it's a question of the significance of human life at various stages of development," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, the leader of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and a minister in the United Church of Christ, a liberal Protestant denomination.

Catholic bishops see such views as a challenge to be met with patient argument both in and outside their own church, and most seem to be moving away from the temptation to discipline Catholics in public life who hold contrary views, said the Rev. William Maestri, spokesman for the Archdiocese of New Orleans.

"We are confronting a culture of death, and that's not going to be overturned by ecclesiastical decree," he said. "It's not going to be overcome by excommunications only. It's going to require a long, long process of planting the seeds of life in the midst of that culture.

"Rummel knew that these fundamental Catholic principles went into the public square and touched many other issues. But he never wavered from Catholic teaching.

"It's that kind of resolve we need today from our leaders."

. . . . . . .

Bruce Nolan can be reached at bnolan@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3344.



1 posted on 07/18/2004 7:15:20 PM PDT by cpforlife.org
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Kerry says he believes that life starts at conception
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1165523/posts

DRUDGE REPORT QUOTES KERRY: "...LIFE DOES BEGIN AT CONCEPTION..."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1165427/posts

Kerry 1972: Abortion is Wrong; Kerry 2004: Abortion is a Choice (Flip-Flop Alert)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1123135/posts

Kerry Will Hold Pro-Abortion Rally Prior to Sunday's Abortion March
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1123175/posts

Kerry hypocrite on abortion
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1077253/posts

ABORTION: KERRY FLIPS AGAIN
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1139625/posts

Senator Kerry, How Can You Support This Barbarism? (Partial Birth Abortion - WARNING GRAPHIC)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1111620/posts

Kerry Claims Partial-Birth Abortion Doesn't Exist
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015958/posts


2 posted on 07/18/2004 7:20:59 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Abortion is the Choice of Satan, the father of lies and a MURDERER from the beginning.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: MHGinTN; Coleus; nickcarraway; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...
PING

Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

4 posted on 07/18/2004 7:24:53 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Abortion is the Choice of Satan, the father of lies and a MURDERER from the beginning.)
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To: cpforlife.org
"The only thing comparable would be if some Catholics started a movement to insist that Catholic hospitals do abortions. That would be closer to the Rummel business," said the Rev. Tom Reese, a Jesuit writer and editor of the Catholic magazine America.

They don't have to go far to find an apologist for evil in today's American Catholic Church.

5 posted on 07/18/2004 7:27:55 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: cpforlife.org
The only thing comparable would be if some Catholics started a movement to insist that Catholic hospitals do abortions. That would be closer to the Rummel business," said the Rev. Tom Reese, a Jesuit writer and editor of the Catholic magazine America.

This is already happening, too, especially if we include birth control in the comparison.

6 posted on 07/18/2004 9:14:56 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer

Centuries ago such folks would be at danger of burning at the stake.

Today the Roman leadership calmly sits back and says "well hey, they've excommunicated themselves, we don't have to say a thing more."

From extreme to extreme. I'm curious when the RCC will ever find the middle.


7 posted on 07/18/2004 9:20:07 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: cpforlife.org
>> In fact, Reese, a priest and journalist, is among those who wish that bishops would be more even-handed and enlarge their criticism to include abortion-rights Republicans such as former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, New York Gov. George Pataki and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. <<

I tend to agree. Until they go after all pro-abortion "Catholic" politicians equally, the RATs can just scream "partisan!" at any attempt to justifiably expose a pro-abortion Catholic as defying the church's teachings. This movement will not be taken seriously until pro-abort RINOs are held to the same standards.

Why is Lisa Murkowski (RINO-AK) not on the list of Catholic Senators who should be denied communion? Last time I checked, she's still pro-abortion and still calls herself "Catholic" Not only that, she just voted against legislation to ban same-sex "marriage". And doesn't she support stem-cell research on embryos? That's at least three "nonnegotiable" positions she's taken, when only ONE is needed as grounds to deny communion.

Could it be she faces a tough general election fight with a RAT, therefore no Catholic conservatives want to remind GOP voters of her liberal positions? She ALSO faces a primary election, which means Alaskans COULD have a pro-life Senator if someone would spend a lot of time and energy to point out why RINO Lisa -- the APPOINTED Senator -- should NOT be nominated by the GOP in her own right. That would be the honest thing to do.

In some of these states, the "Catholic" politicans are practically pro-abort by default. It's an empadempic. Look at California "Catholics" -- Gray Doofus, pro-abort "Catholic", Cruz Bustamente, pro-abort "Catholic", Arnold Shiver, pro-abort "Catholic". Are we seeing a pattern here? SOMEONE needs to speak out...

8 posted on 07/18/2004 9:38:08 PM PDT by BillyBoy (George Ryan deserves a long term...without parole.)
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To: cpforlife.org
The dark albatross of V2's intended consequences rises once again to display its ugly face.

Pre-V2, it was God Almighty (The Church) who defined sin. Post-V2 it's the sinner who decides what is, and what is not, sin.

Venial sin, mortal sin, blasphemy, sacrilege and repeal of conversion as critical to salvation are all left to the conscience of the individual ( Unless of course you dare stand in opposition to the absence of practice and adherence to Sacred Teachings and Traditions of the One True Church.).

It's the Vatican who is encouraging worshipers of false gods and pagan beliefs to perform their satanic rituals on holy consecrated grounds in Fatima - all thanks to the guy from Poland in consert with his band of socialists who by their actions have proven their purpose is plowing under any remaining remnants of The One True Church.

Thanks to V2 the Sacrament of Confession is only necessary when one can not rationalize their way out of having committed sin.

It's not surprising that backsliding American Catholics ( whom I believe constitute more than a majority of the American Catholic Church ) 'feel' The Church should not deny baby killer proponents like Kerry the Body of Christ by way of a Consecrated Host. American catholics, like blind sheep ( blind to Biblical Study and Church law ), have been permitted to scatter in every direction - defining for themselves what it is to be 'Catholic'. The popularity of Brown's The Da Vinci Codes attest to the widespread acceptance of this heresy by American women who call themselves Catholic....thanks to the complete absence or milktoast response to Brown's attack on The Church from those who are bishops in name only.

The bishops of Rome and America embrace heretic priests in China allowing them to be celebrants of Holy Mass in the United States and study in Rome, while those who only want to continue the practices of Roman Catholicism - according to the dogma and traditions maintained for hundreds of years, before the insanity of V2 - are treated as outcasts; though they are not.

O Heavenly Father, send us holy priests. Saint Pius X, pray for us.

9 posted on 07/19/2004 2:58:32 AM PDT by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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To: Robert Drobot

catholicsagainstkerry.com

Join us. For the first time in your life you'll live as a real Catholic and you'll be the Christian soldier you said you would be at your Confirmation.


10 posted on 07/19/2004 6:07:37 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 ( Kerry's not "one of us": catholicsagainstkerry.com. needs your help.)
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To: cpforlife.org
Why pols only? Makes it sound 4-year political rather than convincing morality. Why not start with teachers and administrative staff in Catholic institutions to set a good example?

The politicans are dealing with the public mentality mess created in the schools and colleges within the Catholic community. If the Church was as successful as Baptists, the Catholic public would be as pro-life as Southern politicans. Then the tolerated McGreevys, Patackis, Ridges, and Schwartzneggers would not have been elected.

Those elections should have been a canary in the mines messages that the Catholic clergy did not get the job done. BTW have we heard any homilies about contraception or homosexual practices lately?

11 posted on 07/19/2004 7:43:38 AM PDT by ex-snook (Trade deficits export jobs and the money used to buy America and all we get is a cheap T-shirt.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
This is already happening, too, especially if we include birth control in the comparison.>>

Yes, the IUD and Morning After Pill usually abort a conceived human.

Many Catholic Politicians, 3 in NJ,  voted "against" this bill which protected Doctors and Hospitals from losing federal funding if they "chose"  NOT to perform abortions. So much for being for choice.  Thankfully the bill passed. And NONE of the BISHOPS (Trenton, McCarrick in Newark and Rodimer in Paterson) refuted and repudiated the Catholic Congressman!

HR 4691, Some Voted Against allowing Doctors, Hospitals the right to choose to not commit abortions.

12 posted on 07/19/2004 10:18:40 AM PDT by Coleus (Abraham Lincoln was a trial lawyer.)
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To: cpforlife.org; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
So let me get this straight, if you disagree with a bishop, and challenge him publicaly,  regarding the placement of LIVING children in  a school setting you can get excommunicated. However,
 
if you disagree with a bishop regarding abortion where CHILDREN are TORTURED AND MURDERED, you do NOT get excommunicated.
 
I see?

..................

>>In fact, Reese, a priest and journalist, is among those who wish that bishops would be more even-handed and enlarge their criticism to include abortion-rights Republicans such as former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, New York Gov. George Pataki and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.>>

Reese is right.  Pro-abort republicans are ok?  what gives?

>>Some of the bishops' critics point out that Deal Hudson, the publisher of Crisis, a conservative Catholic magazine that supports sanctioning Catholic politicians who defend abortion rights, is close to President Bush's re-election effort.>>

Deal Hudson is a private Citizen and not a priest or church official.

13 posted on 07/19/2004 10:27:05 AM PDT by Coleus (Abraham Lincoln was a trial lawyer.)
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To: jmaroneps37
For the first time in your life you'll live as a real Catholic ...
How presumptuous!
14 posted on 07/19/2004 10:41:48 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: cpforlife.org

FYI, I clicked on three different links and got the following: "The requested document does not exist on this server." You might want to check the links.


15 posted on 07/19/2004 11:26:27 AM PDT by Dad was my hero
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To: cpforlife.org
Of interest, the Wanderer front page had this.

That on July 3 Italian journalist Sandro Magister reported "On January 6, 2001, John Paul II personally gave Communion to Francesco Rutelli, a practicing Catholic and a premier center-left candidate ..........Rutelli had been as a member of the Radical Party, one of the most active supporters of Italy's abortion law, which is among the most permissive in the world. Further noting Rutelli publicly maintains pro-choice positions.

Should the American clergy be holier than the Pope? or should they recognize that their chain is being pulled by politicians in an election year?

16 posted on 07/19/2004 12:25:10 PM PDT by ex-snook (Trade deficits export jobs and the money used to buy America and all we get is a cheap T-shirt.)
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To: cpforlife.org

Pro-life bump!

We need to keep this issue out there!


17 posted on 07/19/2004 12:49:24 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Coleus

Coleus,Here's a bump.


18 posted on 07/19/2004 4:02:21 PM PDT by fatima (My Granddaughter Karen is Home-WOOHOO We unite with all our troops and send our love-)
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To: ex-snook

Yes. I read that with great sadness and frustration.

IMO--JPII has given many terrible examples such as this.


19 posted on 07/19/2004 4:45:35 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Abortion is the Choice of Satan, the father of lies and a MURDERER from the beginning.)
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To: Dad was my hero

Thanks for that heads up!

Try this to the original page:
Government, Law, and Political Responsibility
http://www.priestsforlife.org/government/polresp.html


20 posted on 07/19/2004 4:52:34 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Abortion is the Choice of Satan, the father of lies and a MURDERER from the beginning.)
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