Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting

NY Times ^ | March 15, 2004 | PATRICK HEALY

[Russian Sage]

Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting

By PATRICK HEALY

Published: March 15, 2004

A week after a man was shot dead inside a Masonic lodge on Long Island, leaders of the state's Masonic organization made the rare move yesterday of suspending the lodge while a panel of lawyers investigates the culture and ritual that led to the shooting.

...

William James, a new arrival to the lodge, South Side 493 Masons of Patchogue, was killed Monday as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the Masons but not officially part of the organization. A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a licensed, loaded gun and shot Mr. James, 47, in the face.

[Russian Sage]

Get there frisk free via Google

[Trinity_Tx]

Tragic isn't it? I'm proud that the Masons are handling it honorably. Here's the thread where we've been discussing it for a few days:

[GeronL]

Let me guess. Lots of talk about Secret Societies and world government?

[Wally_Kalbacken]

Double Secret Probation!!!!

[Trinity_Tx]

On the other thread?

LOL Well... It was in the main forum a few days, then moved to religion forum for a few days, and as of yesterday, even innocent lil ol' me has been banished to the *gasp* Smokey Back Room!

LOL Yeah - lotsa "ooooh but y'all keep secrets" stuff in addition to the religious quarrels.

Whatever happened to "Live and Let Live"?

[GeronL]

I still don't get the allure of the Masonic Lodge. Geez, find a church already and form a club inside it if you need a secret handshake =o)

[uglybiker]

Let me guess. Lots of talk about Secret Societies and world government?

To the nay sayers credit, they've kept the traditional Art Bell style tinfoilhattery to a minimum.

[GeronL]

aw darn.

[sadimgnik]

The allure is, largely, that it isn't a church.

Many of my brothers are Christian, but many of us are not.

While a large part of the ritual is based on the bible, there is no 'believer' status required to be a Mason.

You do have to be a believer in a divine force or being - in fact, 'stupid atheists and libertines' are specifically excluded from membership - but how you see that divine force-or-being is up to you.

And that makes it attractive .. it's a fraternity that is (despite what opponents claim) based on a bedrock of morality - but which does not exclude people the way a church, by definition, must.

As for the secret handshakes, and the aprons, and the rest of the trappings .. it's no more sinister (or silly) than the requirement to start every club speech with "Mr Toastmaster", or the requirement to attend a 'make-up' meeting for Rotarians, or the prohibition on introducing new material as third-speaker-for-the-negative in a formal debate.

Each is a rule (or ritual) that is designed to maintain civility, or fairness, or teach a lesson in responsibility.

So, too, is the apron, and the square-and-compass, and the secret handshake.

Regards

Sadim

[My Dog Likes Me]

Something very similar happened at a KKK initiation a few weeks ago.

The Masons angle is more interesting however, so I expect an episode of "Law & Order" based on this matter within a week or so.

[Wilhelm Tell]

Something very similar happened at a KKK initiation a few weeks ago.

I'm sorry that would-be Mason guy was killed in that stupid stunt, I really am. On the other hand, I am all in favor of fatal accidents being part of the KKK initiation.

By the way, even if a gun really has only blanks, it is still not safe! If one were to shoot a blank at someone's head at close range, the force from the hot gasses from the blank may be enough to punch a hole through a skull and kill the person. A few years ago I read a news story about an actor who was killed when a prop gun loaded with blanks was fired at close range to his head. I do not follow the Brady line that every gun is an accident waiting to happen, but most or maybe all gun accidents would not have happened had people used common sense.

[pt17]

I still don't get the allure of the Masonic Lodge. Geez, find a church already and form a club inside it if you need a secret handshake =o)

When you don't get or understand something, it's usually a good to avoid making recommendations about it. With just a little research, you can readily learn that it is a fraternity based on morality, values and a belief in a higher power (i.e. God). Your recommendation seems to ignore or make light of the fact that they do good things, such as Hospitals For Children.

BTW, is it possible that these Notable Masons could have had some reasons for joining other than secret handshakes?

[My Dog Likes Me]

I agree totally.
I think this "informal lodge" must have gone outside the rules of the Masonic Order for initiations. A sad story, as the Masons do a tremendous amount of good works.

[Condor51]

Masons?!? Jeez, doesn't anyone join the Elks anymore?
Or maybe the Moose? (or is it Meese -- or is it Mooses? - just kidding)

[gobucks]

Why was the thread pulled - do you know?

[Rightly Biased]

Why was the other thread pulled? any ideas?

and NO I am not giong there again on this thread or ever again, I have been punished enough ;^)

[uglybiker]

Why was the other thread pulled? any ideas?

I noticed that, too. Is there any chance the thread could be put back up and locked? I'd like to keep it for future reference.

Thanks.

[uglybiker]

NO I am not giong there again on this thread or ever again, I have been punished enough ;^)

Ah, but ya gotta admit what a fine slingin' o' the mud it was! :-P

[uglybiker]

Membership in fraternal organizations has been in decline since the 60's. Although it's too early to tell, there are some signs that might be changing.

[Trinity_Tx]

The thread had over 1300 posts on it, which was rare for such a topic. It stayed up that long because the Masons, rather than whining to have it pulled, wanted the chance to advocate for themselves and air it out like reasonable adults.

And they did. The majority of posters on both sides were able to maintain their composure (and have friendly exchanges of jokes and compliments) even while strongly disagreeing on the issue.

A couple could not, however. Admin fairly targeted and deleted a string of childish tit-for-tats a few days ago, but apparently, when another string occurred in the wee hours last night, we were all punished for their childish behavior.

Ironically, or predictably, the person from our side who provoked it had wanted the thread pulled from the beginning. I guess if you can't get even your own side to agree to have it pulled, you can trash the thread yourself to get your way.

It's just wrong. Like UglyBiker, I felt there was a lot of valuable information and debate on that thread. Now it's gone unless Jim can do something.