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Bush 'Troubled' by Gay Marriage Issue (RE: San Fran weddings)
Yahoo News ^

Posted on 02/18/2004 9:28:40 AM PST by KantianBurke

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To: rj45mis; jgrubbs
It sounds like you are obsessed with President Bush. I will say it again, we can vote him out of office and install Kerry or Edwards or Hillary and get something much worse, or we can write in one of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Dr. James Kennedy, or someone else who will force Americans to daily recite the living Word of God.

What a lame reply! That's NOT what the fella is saying at all. Why is that every time someone tells the TRUTH about President Bush--the REALITY of President Bush--that person gets "slapped" and then gets thrown at him the standard: "we can vote him out of office and install Kerry or Edwards or Hillary and get something much worse..."

That justification is getting real old. I personally am going to vote my conscious...not vote "just to keep a democrat out of office. THAT'S what the Dems are espousing..."vote Kerry, the one most likely to beat GWB." No thanks--as for me, I'll vote for the one who comes close to fitting what I'd like to see for America.

41 posted on 02/18/2004 10:41:26 AM PST by nfldgirl
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To: jgrubbs
It was my understanding that Log Cabine Republicans are not in favor of gay "marriage", only gay unions.
42 posted on 02/18/2004 10:45:03 AM PST by Integrityrocks
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To: KantianBurke
Bush's take on the ongoing "marriages" in San Fran. "Troubled?"

Could he be troubled by the ILLEGALS? Nah. But have a christian say something about a Muslim then you've crossed the line, right GW?

43 posted on 02/18/2004 10:45:32 AM PST by Digger
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To: SaveTheChief
It is a federal issue. It has always been a federal issue because that is where teh homosexual groups have wanted it. It has always always been about getting one state to accept homosexual marriage and use FFC. Always. Human rights coalition has activly litigated it with that in mind.

You may wistfully want this to be a state issue, but that illusion is looooooong gone. It is federal and requires the FMA solution.
44 posted on 02/18/2004 10:52:10 AM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo
I agree with your post #40. You're right, the pandering is no surprise because we have already seen it in its essence in regard to illegal immigration.
45 posted on 02/18/2004 11:04:43 AM PST by MissouriForBush (Insert "Was" Because of Disastrous Illegal Immigration Non-Plan)
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To: KantianBurke; Barnacle; Salem; Dubya; MeekOneGOP

""I am watching very carefully, but I am troubled by what I've seen," Bush said.

Yes, yes, and yes. So are we Mr. President, so are we . .

Mass. Supreme Court Rules - Gay Couples have the Right to Marry

=====================================================================================================================================================

Throughout history, the major civilizations major religions condemned homosexuality.1 Until 1961 homosexual acts were illegal throughout America.

Gays claim that the "prevailing attitude toward homosexuals in the U.S. and many other countries is revulsion and hostility....for acts and desires not harmful to anyone."3 The American Psychological Association and the American Public Health Association assured the U.S. Supreme Court in 1986 that "no significant data show that engaging in...oral and anal sex, results in mental or physical dysfunction."4

What Homosexuals Do

The major surveys on homosexual behavior are summarized below. Two things stand out 1) homosexuals behave similarly world-over, and 2) as Harvard Medical Professor, Dr. William Haseltine,33 noted in 1993, the "changes in sexual behavior that have been reported to have occurred in some groups have proved, for the most part, to be transient. For example, bath houses and sex clubs in many cities have either reopened or were never closed."

Homosexual Activities (in %)

		US16 US13  US    US18 Denmark20 US19  London27  Sydney/London26                                                            Canada25                                                      
		1940s1977 83/84  1983  1984   1983    1985       1991                       
		ever ever  ever in yr in yr  in mo   in mo   last 6mo                                                                                  
oral/penile       83   99  100/99  99    86             67                 
anal/penile       68   91   93/98  95    92     95     100                 
oral/anal         59   83   92/92  63           69      89       55/65       
urine sex         10   23    29/                                              
fisting/toys      22   41/47 34                                       
fecal sex-eating        4     8                                                       
enemas        	       11    11                                               
torture sex       22   37    37                                              
public/orgy sex   61   76    88                                               
sex with minors   37   23    24/                                          

ORAL SEX Homosexuals fellate almost all of their sexual contacts (and ingest semen from about half of these). Semen contains many of the germs carried in the blood. Because of this, gays who practice oral sex verge on consuming raw human blood, with all its medical risks. Since the penis often has tiny lesions (and often will have been in unsanitary places such as a rectum), individuals so involved may become infected with hepatitis A or gonorrhea (and even HIV and hepatitis B). Since many contacts occur between strangers (70% of gays estimated that they had had sex only once with over half of their partners17,27), and gays average somewhere between 106 and 1105 different partners/year, the potential for infection is considerable.

RECTAL SEX Surveys indicate that about 90% of gays have engaged in rectal intercourse, and about two-thirds do it regularly. In a 6-month long study of daily sexual diaries,3 gays averaged 110 sex partners and 68 rectal encounters a year.

Rectal sex is dangerous. During rectal intercourse the rectum becomes a mixing bowl for 1) saliva and its germs and/or an artificial lubricant, 2) the recipient's own feces, 3) whatever germs, infections or substances the penis has on it, and 4) the seminal fluid of the inserter. Since sperm readily penetrate the rectal wall (which is only one cell thick) causing immunologic damage, and tearing or bruising of the anal wall is very common during anal/penile sex, these substances gain almost direct access to the blood stream. Unlike heterosexual intercourse (in which sperm cannot penetrate the multilayered vagina and no feces are present),7 rectal intercourse is probably the most sexually efficient way to spread hepatitis B, HIV syphilis and a host of other blood-borne diseases.

Tearing or ripping of the anal wall is especially likely with "fisting," where the hand and arm is inserted into the rectum. It is also common when "toys" are employed (homosexual lingo for objects which are inserted into the rectum--bottles, carrots, even gerbils8). The risk of contamination and/or having to wear a colostomy bag from such "sport" is very real. Fisting was apparently so rare in Kinsey's time that he didn't think to talk about it. By 1977, well over a third of gays admitted to doing it. The rectum was not designed to accommodate the fist, and those who do so can find themselves consigned to diapers for life.

FECAL SEX About 80% of gays (see Table) admit to licking and/or inserting their tongues into the anus of partners and thus ingesting medically significant amounts of feces. Those who eat or wallow in it are probably at even greater risk. In the diary study,5 70% of the gays had engaged in this activity--half regularly over 6 months. Result? --the "annual incidence of hepatitis A in...homosexual men was 22 percent, whereas no heterosexual men acquired hepatitis A." In 1992,26 it was noted that the proportion of London gays engaging in oral/anal sex had not declined since 1984.

While the body has defenses against fecal germs, exposure to the fecal discharge of dozens of strangers each year is extremely unhealthy. Ingestion of human waste is the major route of contracting hepatitis A and the enteric parasites collectively known as the Gay Bowel Syndrome. Consumption of feces has also been implicated in the transmission of typhoid fever,9 herpes, and cancer.27 About 10% of gays have eaten or played with [e.g., enemas, wallowing in feces]. The San Francisco Department of Public Health saw 75,000 patients per year, of whom 70 to 80 per cent are homosexual men....An average of 10 per cent of all patients and asymptomatic contacts reported...because of positive fecal samples or cultures for amoeba, giardia, and shigella infections were employed as food handlers in public establishments; almost 5 per cent of those with hepatitis A were similarly employed."10 In 1976, a rare airborne scarlet fever broke out among gays and just missed sweeping through San Francisco.10 The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that 29% of the hepatitis A cases in Denver, 66% in New York, 50% in San Francisco, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal and 26% in Melbourne in the first six months of 1991 were among gays.11 A 1982 study "suggested that some transmission from the homosexual group to the general population may have occurred."12

URINE SEX About 10% of Kinsey's gays reported having engaged in "golden showers" [drinking or being splashed with urine]. In the largest survey of gays ever conducted,13 23% admitted to urine-sex. In the largest random survey of gays,6 29% reported urine-sex. In a San Francisco study of 655 gays,14 only 24% claimed to have been monogamous in the past year. Of these monogamous gays, 5% drank urine, 7% practiced "fisting," 33% ingested feces via anal/oral contact, 53% swallowed semen, and 59% received semen in their rectum during the previous month.

OTHER GAY SEX PRACTICES

SADOMASOCHISM as the Table indicates, a large minority of gays engage in torture for sexual fun. Sex with minors 25% of white gays17 admitted to sex with boys 16 or younger as adults. In a 9-state study,30 33% of the 181 male, and 22% of the 18 female teachers caught molesting students did so homosexually (though less than 3% of men and 2% of women engage in homosexuality31). Depending on the study, the percent of gays reporting sex in public restrooms ranged from 14%16 to 41%13 to 66%,6 9%16, 60%13 and 67%5 reported sex in gay baths; 64%16 and 90%18 said that they used illegal drugs.

Fear of AIDS may have reduced the volume of gay sex partners, but the numbers are prodigious by any standard. Morin15 reported that 824 gays had lowered their sex-rate from 70 different partners/yr. in 1982 to 50/yr. by 1984. McKusick14 reported declines from 76/yr. to 47/yr. in 1985. In Spain32 the average was 42/yr. in 1989.

Medical Consequences of Homosexual Sex

Death and disease accompany promiscuous and unsanitary sexual activity. 70%25 to 78%x,13 of gays reported having had a sexually transmitted disease. The proportion with intestinal parasites (worms, flukes, amoeba) ranged from 25%18 to 39%19 to 59%.20 As of 1992, 83% of U.S. AIDS in whites had occurred in gays.21 The Seattle sexual diary study3? reported that gays had, on a yearly average:

  1. fellated 108 men and swallowed semen from 48;
  2. exchanged saliva with 96;
  3. experienced 68 penile penetrations of the anus; and
  4. ingested fecal material from 19.

No wonder 10% came down with hepatitis B and 7% contracted hepatitis A during the 6-month study.

Effects on the Lifespan

Smokers and drug addicts don't live as long as non-smokers or non-addicts, so we consider smoking and narcotics abuse harmful. The typical life-span of homosexuals suggests that their activities are more destructive than smoking nd as dangerous as drugs.

Obituaries numbering 6,516 from 16 U.S. homosexual journals over the past 12 years were compared to a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers.23 The obituaries from the regular newspapers were similar to U.S. averages for longevity; the medium age of death of married men was 75, and 80% of them died old (age 65 or older). For unmarried or divorced men the median age of death was 57, and 32% of them died old. Married women averaged age 79 at death; 85% died old. Unmarried and divorced women averaged age 71, and 60% of them died old.

The median age of death for homosexuals, however, was virtually the same nationwide--and, overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39. For the 829 gays who died of something other than AIDS, the median age of death was 42, and 9% died old. The 163 lesbians had a median age of death of 44, and 20% died old.

Two and eight-tenths percent (2.8%) of gays died violently. They were 116 times more apt to be murdered; 24 times more apt to commit suicide; and had a traffic-accident death-rate 18 times the rate of comparably-aged white males. Heart attacks, cancer and liver failure were exceptionally common. Twenty percent of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident--a rate 487 times higher than that of white females aged 25-44. The age distribution of samples of homosexuals in the scientific literature from 1989 to 1992 suggests a similarly shortened life-span.

The Gay Legacy

Homosexuals rode into the dawn of sexual freedom and returned with a plague that gives every indication of destroying most of them. Those who treat AIDS patients are at great risk, not only from HIV infection, which as of 1992 involved over 100 health care workers,21 but also from TB and new strains of other diseases.24 Those who are housed with AIDS patients are also at risk.24 Those who are housed with AIDS patients are also at risk.24 Dr. Max Essex, chair of the Harvard AIDS Institute, warned congress in 1992 that "AIDS has already led to other kinds of dangerous epidemics...If AIDS is not eliminated, other new lethal microbes will emerge, and neither safe sex nor drug free practices will prevent them."28 At least 8, and perhaps as many as 30 29 patients had been infected with HIV by health care workers as of 1992.

The Biological Swapmeet

The typical sexual practices of homosexuals are a medical horror story --imagine exchanging saliva, feces, semen and/or blood with dozens of different men each year. Imagine drinking urine, ingesting feces and experiencing rectal trauma on a regular basis. Often these encounters occur while the participants are drunk, high, and/or in an orgy setting. Further, many of them occur in extremely unsanitary places (bathrooms, dirty peep shows), or, because homosexuals travel so frequently, in other parts of the world.

Every year, a quarter or more of homosexuals visit another country.20 Fresh American germs get taken to Europe, Africa and Asia. And fresh pathogens from these continents come here. Foreign homosexuals regularly visit the U.S. and participate in this biological swapmeet.

The Pattern of Infection

Unfortunately the danger of these exchanges does not merely affect homosexuals. Travelers carried so many tropical diseases to New York City that it had to institute a tropical disease center, and gays carried HIV from New York City to the rest of the world.27 Most of the 6,349 Americans who got AIDS from contaminated blood as of 1992, received it from homosexuals and most of the women in California who got AIDS through heterosexual activity got it from men who engaged in homosexual behavior.23 The rare form of airborne scarlet fever that stalked San Francisco in 1976 also started among homosexuals.10

Genuine Compassion

Society is legitimately concerned with health risks-- they impact our taxes and everyone's chances of illness and injury. Because we care about them, smokers are discouraged from smoking by higher insurance premiums, taxes on cigarettes and bans against smoking in public. These social pressures cause many to quit. They likewise encourage non-smokers to stay non-smokers.

Homosexuals are sexually troubled people engaging in dangerous activities. Because we care about them and those tempted to join them, it is important that we neither encourage nor legitimize such a destructive lifestyle.


References

1. Karlen A. SEXUALITY And HOMOSEXUALITY. NY Norton, 1971.

2. Pines B. BACK TO BASICS. NY Morrow, 1982, p. 211.

3. Weinberg G. SOCIETY AND THE HEALTHY HOMOSEXUAL. NY St. Martin's, 1972, preface.

4. Amici curiae brief, in Bowers v. Hardwick, 1986.

5. Corey L. & Holmes, K.K. Sexual transmission of Hepatitis A in homosexual men. "New England Journal of Medicine," 1980302435- 38.

6. Cameron P et al Sexual orientation and sexually transmitted disease. "Nebraska Medical Journal," 198570292-99; Effect of homosexuality upon public health and social order "Psychological Reports," 1989, 64, 1167-79.

7. Manligit, G.W. et al Chronic immune stimulation by sperm alloan- tigens. "Journal of the American Medical Association," 1984251 237-38.

8. Cecil Adams, "The Straight Dope," THE READER (Chicago, 3/28/86) [Adams writes authoritatively on counter-culture material, his column is carried in many alternative newspapers across the U.S. and Canada].

9. Dritz, S. & Braff. Sexually transmitted typhoid fever. "New England Journal of Medicine," 19772961359-60.

10. Dritz, S. Medical aspects of homosexuality. "New England Journal of Medicine," 1980302463-4.

11. CDC Hepatitis A among homosexual men --United States, Canada, and Australia. MMWR 199241155-64.

12. Christenson B. et al. An epidemic outbreak of hepatitis A among homosexual men in Stockholm, "American Journal of Epidemiology," 1982115599-607.

13. Jay, K. & Young, A. THE GAY REPORT. NY Summit, 1979.

14. McKusick, L. et al AIDS and sexual behaviors reported by gay men in San Francisco, "American Journal of Public Health," 1985 75493- 96.

15. USA Today 11/21/84.

16. Gebhard, P. & Johnson, A. THE KINSEY DATA. NY Saunders, 1979.

17. Bell, A. & Weinberg, M. HOMOSEXUALITIES. NY Simon & Schuster, 1978.

18. Jaffee, H. et al. National case-control study of Kaposi's sarcoma. "Annals Of Internal Medicine," 198399145-51.

19. Quinn, T. C. et al. The polymicrobial origin of intestinal infection in homosexual men. "New England Journal of Medicine," 1983309576-82.

20. Biggar, R. J. Low T-lymphocyte ratios in homosexual men. "Journal Of The American Medical Association," 19842511441-46; "Wall Street Journal," 7/18/91, B1.

21. CDC HIV/AIDS SURVEILLANCE, February 1993.

22. Chu, S. et al. AIDS in bisexual men in the U.S. "American Journal Of Public Health," 199282220-24.

23. Cameron, P., Playfair, W. & Wellum, S. The lifespan of homo- sexuals. Paper presented at Eastern Psychological Association Convention, April 17, 1993.

24. Dooley, W.W. et al. Nosocomial transmission of tuberculosis in a hospital unit for HIV-invected patients. "Journal of the American Medical Association," 19922672632-35.

25. Schechter, M.T. et al. Changes in sexual behavior and fear of AIDS. "Lancet," 198411293.

26. Elford, J. et al. Kaposi's sarcoma and insertive rimming. "Lancet," 1992339938.

27. Beral, V. et al. Risk of Kaposi's sarcoma and sexual practices associated with faecal contact in homosexual or bisexual men with AIDS. "Lancet," 1992339632-35.

28. Testimony before House Health & Environment Subcommittee, 2/24/92.

29. Ciesielski, C. et al. Transmission of human immunodeficiency virus in a dental practice. "Annals of Internal Medicine, 1992116 798-80; CDC Announcement Houston Post, 8/7/92.

30. Rubin, S. "Sex Education Teachers Who Sexually Abuse Students." 24th International Congress on Psychology, Sydney, Australia, August 1988.

31. Cameron, P. & Cameron, K. Prevalence of homosexuality. "Psychology Reports," 1993, in press; Melbye, M. & Biggar, R.J. Interactions between persons at risk for AIDS and the general population in Denmark. "American Journal of Epidemiology," 1992135593-602.

32. Rodriguez-Pichardo, A. et al. Sexually transmitted diseases in homosexual males in Seville, Spain, "Geniourin Medicina," 1990 66;423-427.

33. AIDS Prognosis, Washington Times, 2/13/93, C1.



46 posted on 02/18/2004 11:06:40 AM PST by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: xzins
GOOD! I hope that you are right! I will continue praying that President will make the right decision on this and act quickly and he has to know that we are all supporting him and will continue to, my goodness he has a loyal base of voters here.

47 posted on 02/18/2004 11:11:58 AM PST by stopem
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To: Mean Maryjean
MM, you can call it what you want, but the bottom line is: it will be Bush or the Democratic candidate. Choose your poison if you will!
48 posted on 02/18/2004 11:14:10 AM PST by rj45mis
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping -

Note that the comments include a whole lotta Bush bashing...

Please note, fellows FR enthusiasts, that Log Cabin Reoublicans started their organization under the premise that Abraham Lincoln was a fellow same-sex sodomy practitioner.

Please also note that the reason they are "Republican" is to steer the GOP in favor of the homosexual agenda. It is a sore point with me that Bush caters to them - hiring aggressive homosexuals, and so on. But there is no alternative. Not voting for Bush means the possibility of the Dem'o'crap contender getting elected. We don't want that, do we? I sure as heck don't.

"If you're not with the one you love, love the one you're with" -- politically speaking.
49 posted on 02/18/2004 11:18:25 AM PST by little jeremiah (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone isn't entitled to be right.)
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To: KantianBurke
"Troubled?"

This is an ominous sign.

50 posted on 02/18/2004 11:21:04 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: jgrubbs
"Your showing your bitterness towards Christians by that statement."

Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth. My point is that you want this nice, neatly packaged President who thinks down to your level and does everything exactly the way you think he should. Of course it doesn't matter to you and your ilk that such a person is not electable in this country. You spend so much of your time and energy blasting our President that one has to believe you don't really know who you want to lead this country. BTW, one of the reasons that I support President Bush is for my belief that he is a genuine "born-again believer." The term "Christian" takes in a whole lot of folks in our society.
51 posted on 02/18/2004 11:24:57 AM PST by rj45mis
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To: Happy2BMe; *Homosexual Agenda; KantianBurke; autoresponder

52 posted on 02/18/2004 11:28:10 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (The Democrats believe in CHOICE. I have chosen to vote STRAIGHT TICKET GOP for years !!)
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To: yall
barf alert!


MICHAEL STUPARYK/TORONTO STAR

Michael Stark, left, and Michael Lashner pop champagne
and kiss after their wedding ceremony yesterday.
Leshner called the ruling, "Day One for millions of gays
and lesbians around the world."

Gay couple married after ruling
(Toronto, Canada)

B.C. court OK's gay marriage -
first gay couple legally married in British Columbia

Gays Flock to Divorce Court

Same-sex unions in 'News' -
Dallas Morning News to publish FREE
same sex unions announcements

The Media's Gay Mafia "Queers" the News

Useful Idiot Caption-A-Rama: Special Gay Pride Edition!

Gay frat seeks approval from UT-San Antonio
(See #39 for some humor)


Black gays launch ‘marriage equality’ campaign


53 posted on 02/18/2004 11:28:33 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (The Democrats believe in CHOICE. I have chosen to vote STRAIGHT TICKET GOP for years !!)
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To: rj45mis
President Bush is for my belief that he is a genuine "born-again believer."

President Bush said he reads the Bible daily, but he confessed to the New York Times, “I don’t necessarily believe every single word is literally true.” About the evolution-creation debate, he said, “The verdict is still out on how God created the earth. I don’t use the Bible as necessarily a way to predict the findings of science.”

What about when he demoralized Korean and Japanese Christians by bowing down at a pagan Shinto shrine in Japan.

“Denouncing The President Bush’s Shinto Shrine Worship”, Christian Council of Korea, Korea Evangelical Fellowship, Christian Ethics Movement of Korea, http://www.worldevangelical.org/news_japan_22feb02.html, also http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20020219a4.htm and http://www.faithdefenders.com/02-23-02d.html#1

What about his public profession that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture.

“Bush: Christians, Muslims Worship the Same God,” Maranatha Christian Journal, 11-21-03, http://www.mcjonline.com/news/03a/20031121a.shtml

What about his endorsement of Ramadan, a Muslim fast, at a White House celebration.

“Bush Honors Islam Holy Month”, U.S. Dept. of State website, Nov.19, 2001, http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01111919.htm

54 posted on 02/18/2004 11:35:59 AM PST by jgrubbs
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To: longtermmemmory
Unless there is a federal law decaring that no state, city or local government can enact rights for homosexual marriage, this is not a federal issue.

However, I do agree that in the grand scheme of things, this does have a nationwide impact. But all action on this issue need to take place starting with enforcement of the California state laws.

55 posted on 02/18/2004 11:37:04 AM PST by SaveTheChief
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To: Dane
Man does not live on inflammatory and knee jerk rhetoric alone.

Indeed, yours is a voice of reason. One more... Man doesn't live on misrepresentations.

56 posted on 02/18/2004 11:39:54 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: cripplecreek
Its a much bigger problem for democrats. They either have to support gay marriage against the wishes of the majority or support it with the minority.

Or, they could do what they often do -- lie. They could simply lie, and say that most people do "support equal rights for everyone, and stand against discrimination."

And sad to say, those lies do tend to take root. Unfortunately, all too many people base their own "opinions" on what they perceive -- rightly or not -- to be the majority opinion.

As the Spiritual Father of the Left pointed out in his book "Mein Kampf", if you repeat a lie often enough, people will eventually believe it.

The left has taken The Gospel According To Saint Adolf and honed it into a science.

57 posted on 02/18/2004 11:42:06 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: KantianBurke
Wonder if he is "troubled" about the human mass coming over our borders. Many voters are. At least most of the gays are Americans.
58 posted on 02/18/2004 11:44:39 AM PST by cynicom
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To: xzins
Thanks for the ping.
59 posted on 02/18/2004 11:45:17 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: xzins
"Troubled" in the title is a fair word. I just heard the President's voice. His tone struck me as seriously concerned, reflective, ready to act. Almost ominous.

From your lips....

60 posted on 02/18/2004 11:46:13 AM PST by tuesday afternoon
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