E-word brings out the e-mail [Evolution in Georgia schools]

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 10 February 2004 | Colin Campbell

[PatrickHenry]

Lots of people hit the roof after state Schools Superintendant Kathy Cox proposed that evolution be downplayed in Georgia's public schools. I joined the critics, in three columns, and readers bombarded me with mail. Here's a tiny sample of their thoughts, starting with the anti-evolutionists.

"[T]o believe in evolution essentially takes God out of the picture," wrote Sam Kiker of Duluth, "and maybe that is what people want."

"Being a Christian," wrote Kip Howard of Marietta, "I have no problem with evolution being taught in public schools as long as it's taught as THEORY only and not fact, since no legitimate facts exist to prove evolution is valid."

Bill DeMartino of Norcross wrote: "Anyone who has kept up with this field will tell you that the cutting-edge evolutionary theorists don't even believe Darwin's theory."

"You must be really scared," wrote another reader. "You don't have a clue about real science. What is so frightening about intelligent design? Go to www.reasons.org and check out the facts. Dare you!"

A few critics grew harsh. "I don't say this to many people," wrote Walter Little Jr. of East Point, "but you are an absolute moron. . . . I did not evolve from a monkey or an ape. I was created by God."

A few readers on the other side were also harsh. "The know-nothings, flat-earth nuts and fundamentalist zealots are far more threatening to our country's future than terrorists," wrote Roland Anderton of Atlanta. "And they're all Republicans!"

Other proponents of teaching evolution insisted that Cox carved much more than the single word "evolution" out of Georgia's biology curriculum.

Sarah Pallas, a biology professor at Georgia State University, said Cox has reinstated the e-word, but key scientific concepts remain censored, "such as the ecological impact of humans, age of the Earth, common ancestry, plate tectonics, Big Bang theory, and the history of life, the Earth and the universe."

Georgia's systematic deletions struck Wes McCoy, chairman of the science department at North Cobb High School in Kennesaw, as suspicious: "It is as if someone has a very particular set of philosophical beliefs, and they wish to apply that philosophy to the entire state."

"I have been teaching earth science at the University of Georgia for 31 years," wrote Professor Vernon Meentemeyer, "and I continue to be distressed by the poor science education of incoming freshmen. In almost every class there will be a few students who want to fight with you over the age of the Earth, the fossil record, etc. Some try to use up time by asking questions which are so expertly crafted that they must have come out of some guide book. Or they were coached. Once every year or so a student will ask for a 'visitor' to come into my classroom to give 'alternative' viewpoints."

I also got letters from Christians who disagree with the anti-evolutionists.

"I'm about as conservative as they come," wrote Charles Jackson of Atlanta: "solid Bush/Perdue Republican, pre-Vatican II, Mel Gibson-type Roman Catholic. However, there is nothing inherently irreligious about evolution. God's plan for us can certainly accommodate Charles Darwin."

[PatrickHenry]

This pretty much sums up the 2 or 3 threads we've had on this topic over the past few weeks.

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[anguish]

Key words here:

they wish to apply that philosophy to the entire state

Can't people just keep science in the science classes, and religion in whatever class appropriate for that. Here in Sweden we have 'Religion' as a specific subject classes 4 through 10-12 (depending on choices). We were taught evolutionary theory in biology classes and various creation myths in religion classes. Easy as that.

[anniegetyourgun]

"I have been teaching economics at the University of Georgia for 31 years," wrote Professor Beandip, "and I continue to be distressed by the poor econ education of incoming freshmen. In almost every class there will be a few students who want to fight with you over priming the pump, government planner expertise, etc. Some try to use up time by asking questions which are so expertly crafted that they must have come out of some guide book. Or they were coached. Once every year or so a student will ask for a 'visitor' to come into my classroom to give 'alternative' viewpoints."

[samtheman]

as long as it's taught as THEORY only and not fact

Knowledge is not a ladder with fact on a higher rung than theory.

Facts are what we see in the world. Theories are our explanations.

Fact: apples fall.
Theory: Gravity.

Fact: Spieces change over time.
Theory: Evolution.

[ScudEast]

Knowledge is not a ladder with fact on a higher rung than theory. Facts are what we see in the world. Theories are our explanations. Fact: apples fall. Theory: Gravity. Fact: Spieces change over time. Theory: Evolution.

Spot on! I would like to see more time taken in science classes to explain that - ie the nature, philosophy and practice of formulating scientific theories rather than skimming over the surface detail of specific scientific theories that you will never have sufficient time to "prove" to your students in any meaningful way. If the philosophy of science is taught properly then the science vs religion battle dissapears.

[general_re]

"And they're all Republicans!"

Sigh.

[VadeRetro]

Bill DeMartino of Norcross wrote: "Anyone who has kept up with this field will tell you that the cutting-edge evolutionary theorists don't even believe Darwin's theory."

Seems to be a reference to those fraudulent quote salads which dot these discussions. You can fool Bill DeMartino all the time.

[whattajoke]

You can fool Bill DeMartino all the time.

For some reason, that elicited a literal LOL.

[PatrickHenry]

["And they're all Republicans!"] Sigh.

That is exactly the reason why these evolution threads are so important to this website -- to combat the impression (which the socialist-democrats would love to promote) that all republicans and conservatives are knuckle-dragging idiots.

[balrog666]

You can fool Bill DeMartino all the time.

Good one.

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - EVOLUTION

[Leatherneck_MT]

Unfortunately unless it's Islam, religion is not permitted to be taught in the US.

[Modernman]

A few critics grew harsh. "I don't say this to many people," wrote Walter Little Jr. of East Point, "but you are an absolute moron. . . . I did not evolve from a monkey or an ape. I was created by God."

Wow- a perfect synopsis of the arguments of many of the creationists on this thread: personal attacks coupled with denial of reality.

[stanz]

Fact: apples fall.
Theory: Gravity.

Fact: Species change over time.
Theory: Evolution.

Very simply stated and accurate. I can't see why there should be any confusion.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Dimensio]

This pretty much sums up the 2 or 3 threads we've had on this topic over the past few weeks.


"[T]o believe in evolution essentially takes God out of the picture," wrote Sam Kiker of Duluth, "and maybe that is what people want."

"Being a Christian," wrote Kip Howard of Marietta, "I have no problem with evolution being taught in public schools as long as it's taught as THEORY only and not fact, since no legitimate facts exist to prove evolution is valid."

Bill DeMartino of Norcross wrote: "Anyone who has kept up with this field will tell you that the cutting-edge evolutionary theorists don't even believe Darwin's theory."

"You must be really scared," wrote another reader. "You don't have a clue about real science. What is so frightening about intelligent design? Go to www.reasons.org and check out the facts. Dare you!"

A few critics grew harsh. "I don't say this to many people," wrote Walter Little Jr. of East Point, "but you are an absolute moron. . . . I did not evolve from a monkey or an ape. I was created by God."

Yep. That definitely sums up the 2 or 3 threads we've had on this topic. Full of ignorance, devoid of any knowledge. I weep for our future.

[Right Wing Professor]

Unfortunately unless it's Islam, religion is not permitted to be taught in the US.

Fundamentalist Islam also rejects evolution, so the Creationists here would be OK with that, at least as far as biology class is concerned.

[jennyp]

The paper also published a ton of letters to the editor on this subject.

[jennyp]

"And they're all Republicans!"

Sad. And true, unfortunately.