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The Consequences of Casual Conversations
The Daily Standard ^ | 10/27/03 | Wesley J. Smith

Posted on 10/28/2003 2:20:14 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck

ONE EVENING, during the second term of President Ronald Reagan, Terri Schiavo and her husband Michael decided to watch a television movie about Karen Ann Quinlan. Quinlan, as most readers know, had a tragic life. After overdosing on a combination of drugs and alcohol, she fell into unconsciousness and never awakened. Her parents won a lawsuit in the New Jersey Supreme Court allowing them to disconnect her ventilator. Karen didn't die immediately--she lived on for 10 more years before finally expiring from pneumonia.

While discussing the movie, Michael claims that Terri stated she would not want to live hooked up to a "machine" (she's not), or be a "burden" (her parents don't consider her a burden and want to care for her). Michael's brother, Scott, backs up his claim, while his sister-in-law, Joan, told the court that Terri had approved of pulling the life support from the dying baby of a mutual friend and said that if she ever wrote a "will" she would say that she didn't want "tubes."

Little did Terri know that these purported statements, uttered under very casual circumstances, would become the justification used by her husband in his six-year drive to remove her feeding tube and end her life. Indeed, based on these casual statements, Judge George Greer of the Sixth Judicial Circuit in Clearwater, Florida ruled that Michael had established "by clear and convincing evidence"--the highest evidentiary standard in civil law--that Terri would rather dehydrate to death over a period of 10-14 days than live on food and water supplied by a feeding tube.

THIS ASPECT of Terri's case deserves far more attention that it is receiving. Most of us have undoubtedly made similar casual statements in response to the death of a relative or the emotions generated by a movie. But shouldn't much more be required to justify the intentional ending of a human life? At the very least, shouldn't we demand a well thought out, informed, and preferably written statement that not only indicates what is desired, but also shows that reasonable alternatives have been fully considered?

For example, if Terri did say she didn't want tubes, did she know that it would include a feeding tube and that it could mean a dying process that involved seizures, heaving, nose bleeding, cracked lips, parched tongue, and the extremities becoming cold and mottled? If she did, would that have made a difference to her? And would her opinion have changed if she knew that the statements made to her husband and in-laws would be stretched by Judge Greer to refuse her parents' reasonable request that before being dehydrated, she be allowed access to rehabilitation that many medical experts believe might permit her to be weaned from the feeding tube altogether?

And what does the statement, "I don't want tubes," mean anyway? Perhaps Terri was thinking about the stark atmosphere of a neonatal intensive care unit in which babies may be kept alive by battalions of beeping and buzzing medical machines. But she isn't in that condition. Or, if she was thinking of Karen Quinlan's circumstance, she might have conceived of herself spending years on a respirator, which was the treatment at issue in her case. But Terri isn't on a respirator. The only life support she needs is food and water.

MANY DEHYDRATION CASES have involved such casual statements. The most disturbing of these was that of Marjorie Nighbert, which, ironically, also occurred in Florida. Marjorie was a successful Ohio businesswoman who was visiting her family in Alabama when she was felled by a stroke that left her disabled but not terminally ill. After being stabilized, she was moved to a nursing home in Florida where, it was hoped, she could be rehabilitated to relearn how to chew and swallow without danger of aspiration. To ensure she was nourished, she was provided a feeding tube.

This presented an excruciating quandary for her brother Maynard, who had a general power of attorney from Marjorie (not power of attorney for health care), as a consequence of which he became her surrogate medical decision-maker. Marjorie had once told her brother that she didn't want a feeding tube if she were terminally ill. Despite the fact that she was not dying, however, Maynard believed that if she were unable to be weaned off the tube, she would have wanted to die rather than live using the tube for nourishment. When she did not improve, he ordered the tube removed.

As she was slowly dehydrating to death, Marjorie began to ask the staff for food and water. In response to her pleas, members of the nursing staff surreptitiously gave her small amounts. One distraught staffer eventually blew the whistle, leading to a state investigation and a temporary restraining order requiring that Marjorie be nourished

Circuit Court Judge Jere Tolton received the case and appointed attorney William F. Stone to represent Nighbert and to conduct a 24-hour inquiry, the sole issue being whether Marjorie was competent to rescind her power of attorney and make her own decisions. After the rushed investigation, Stone was forced to report to the judge that she was not competent at that time. She had, after all been intentionally malnourished for several weeks. Stone particularly noted that he had been unable to determine whether she was competent when the dehydration commenced.

With Stone's report in hand, the judge ruled that the dehydration should be completed, apparently on the theory that Marjorie did not have the competence to request the medical treatment of food and water. Before an appalled Stone could appeal, Nighbert died on April 6, 1995.

Society's approach to the so-called "right to die" has become far too casual. None of us should be made to die because of statements made in casual conversations or due to misconstrued oral directives. The time has come for the best legal minds in the country to draft model legislation that will tighten existing laws so as to give every reasonable legal benefit of the doubt to life rather than, as too often happens now, to slow death by dehydration.

Author Wesley J. Smith is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute and an attorney and consultant for the International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide. He is the author of "Forced Exit: The Slippery Slope from Assisted Suicide to Legalized Murder."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: dehydration; euthenasia; righttodie; terri; terrischiavo
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I was shocked enough at Terri's plight when I came across THIS!

It describes a Florida case 8 years ago where a woman WHO ASKED TO DRINK AND BE FED was dehydrated by court order.

Mock the "Terri Troopers" if you will, but there is a much greater evil to be faced down here than simply HER plight.

1 posted on 10/28/2003 2:20:15 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Oh my God.
2 posted on 10/28/2003 2:27:37 AM PST by greccogirl
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To: PeyersPatches; MSCASEY; JustPiper; Mo1; jwalsh07; Ohioan from Florida; floriduh voter; Republic; ...
Pinging all "Terri Troopers"
3 posted on 10/28/2003 2:33:37 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Don Joe; drlevy88
You too
4 posted on 10/28/2003 2:36:25 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Bob_Dobbs; cpforlife.org
You still would be wise to, and specify in there DON'T do that to you. And give it to everyone you know. Can't be too careful today!
6 posted on 10/28/2003 2:46:29 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
h'mmm. Wow! He remembered?? I've not heard him remember what the program was, just "we were watching some tv..." mumble mumble.

And it conflicts with THIS: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007702/posts

Family, Friends Reflect on Schiavo

By ALLEN G. BREED
Associated Press Writer

October 24, 2003, 10:33 PM EDT

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. -- Diane Meyer can recall only one time her best friend Terri Schiavo really got angry with her. It was 1981, and it haunts her still.

The recent high school graduates had just seen a television movie about Karen Ann Quinlan, who had been in a coma since collapsing six years earlier and was the subject of a bitter court battle over her parents' decision to take her off a respirator. Meyer told a cruel joke about Quinlan, and it set Terri off.

"She went down my throat about this joke, that it was inappropriate," Meyer says. She remembers Terri wondering how the doctors and lawyers could possibly know what Quinlan was really feeling or what she would want.

"Where there's life," Meyer recalls her saying, "there's hope."

Twenty-two years later and suffering from brain damage, Terri is now the subject of a similar debate -- and so is the question of just what choice she would make about her life and death.

Entire article at: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brain-damaged-woman-profile,0,2786165.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

7 posted on 10/28/2003 4:42:48 AM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"I was shocked enough at Terri's plight when I came across THIS!"


I can't believe this is happening in our own country. And yet its. This has to be stopped. This IS Nazi Germany.
8 posted on 10/28/2003 4:44:17 AM PST by PeyersPatches
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May all who can act for good for Terri...
Let her mother feed her!

9 posted on 10/28/2003 4:48:06 AM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Something is terribly wrong somewhere.

10 posted on 10/28/2003 5:17:42 AM PST by Agnes Heep
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To: PeyersPatches; Ragtime Cowgirl; PrepareToLeave; kimmie7; pc93; floriduh voter
PING -- compare the above article:

with October 24, 2003 AP story
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1007702/posts?page=22 posted by nickcarraway. "Diane Meyer can recall only one time her best friend Terri Schiavo really got angry with her. ..."Where there's life," Meyer recalls her saying, "there's hope."


11 posted on 10/28/2003 5:20:42 AM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Wesley J. Smith, Daily Standard
Re: 10/27/03 article The Consequences of Casual Conversations

Thanks for your excellent article which explores one of the many problems I have with the starvation/forced death of Terri Schindler Schiavo.

Please see a related article http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brain-damaged-woman-profile,0,2786165.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines --
Family, Friends Reflect on Schiavo By ALLEN G. BREED, AP Writer October 24, 2003, 10:33 PM EDT

In each case, you writers started out talking about Terri's reaction to the same movie -- and are told entirely different stories by Terri's family/friends vs by Michael Schiavo!
12 posted on 10/28/2003 5:34:56 AM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: PeyersPatches
I wonder what ever became of that judge who ordered the denial of feeding and fluids to the woman, Marjorie who ASKED for it. Or for that matter what was transpiring with the brother Maynard who had sought the order; did he learn of the situation and try to do anything himself and if so what obstacles did he meet?

I wonder if we should just give Florida back to Mexico.
13 posted on 10/28/2003 5:40:23 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The time has come for the best legal minds in the country to draft model legislation that will tighten existing laws so as to give every reasonable legal benefit of the doubt to life rather than, as too often happens now, to slow death by dehydration.

Absolutely. But I fear such legislation will be sabotaged by the "right-to-die"-ers.

OTOH, there may be some good signs the public is rejecting the "right to die" movement. Didn't the people of Washington State vote down a "doctor assisted suicide" referendum?

14 posted on 10/28/2003 5:58:53 AM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: shhrubbery!
OTOH, there may be some good signs the public is rejecting the "right to die" movement

And, well they should.

If Mike succeeds in having Terri starved to death, you can bet there will be an increase in solitary suicides, especially of

Mike and Felos have made it clear that "burdensome," "imperfect" humans should (be "allowed to") die.

15 posted on 10/28/2003 6:14:42 AM PST by syriacus (Casual comments about tubes, made after watching a 3 handkerchief movie, do not justify euthanasia.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"Right to die" translated from Orwellian means "Right to take an inconvenient life".
16 posted on 10/28/2003 6:15:17 AM PST by Publius Maximus
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To: Publius Maximus
Though in the case of MS, it looks a lot more like "right to spite Terri's parents."
17 posted on 10/28/2003 6:22:40 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: drlevy88
He's still sitting on the circuit court bench - a Google search nets articles about rulings by him this year. Interestingly, the advocate lawyer who did the investigation - William F Stone - was appointed circuit court judge by Jeb in 2001. This article says he was expected to share caseload with Tolton.
18 posted on 10/28/2003 6:45:09 AM PST by agrace
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To: HiTech RedNeck
add me to your PING list. Thanks
19 posted on 10/28/2003 7:57:38 AM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Thanks for the ping -- I think -- having spent a sleepless night after watching Schiavo's interview. Today was met with stomach cramps after hearing Jeffrey Figer (sp?) talk about the unconstitutionality of the Jeb Bush/Fla. legislative actions, confident it will be overturned. Couple that with the gut wrenching story of Marjorie Nighbert and my birthday is turning into one depressing day where I feel totally helpless.
20 posted on 10/28/2003 10:50:21 AM PST by StarFan (Life is in session, are you present?)
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