When it comes to many of their positions, they are not only to the left of the Democrats, they are to the left of the Green Party.
As the NeverTrumps start saying they are going to vote Libertarian as "an act of conscious" ask them how supporting these positions is an act of conscious.
1.5 Abortion
They are pro-abortion for any reason at any time.
1.6 Crime and Justice
They favor legalizing all drugs and prostitution.
2.0 Economic Liberty
They do not believe in national borders--period. People should be free to enter into the USA at will, with no government oversight whatsoever.
They are free traders. They do not believe in ANY barriers to the importation of goods.
2.5 Money and Financial Markets
They oppose any government regulation of financial markets.
2.8 Education
They would abolish ALL public education at every level.
2.9 Health Care
They oppose any government involvement in health care. They would eliminate the VA health system, medicare, & medicaide.
2.10 Retirement and Income Security
They would eliminate Social Security and all government retirement systems. They have no plans to replace it with anything.
3.1 National Defense
They are isolationist--plain and simple. They would withdraw the US not only from NATO, but from all foreign countries and close any US military bases not on US soil.
13% of my pay was paid into social security during my lifetime. Half of that was hidden as “employer contribution” but let’s face it - it came out of my pay.
Return all that to me right now, and you can close down Social Security forever.
Libertarians have some good stuff but its open borders, legal drugs, gay marriage, pro-abortion. Screw that.
> They favor legalizing all drugs and prostitution.
Don’t see the problem with this. Prohibitionist laws always cause more harm than good. It’s the closest thing to a physical axiom in legislation.
> They do not believe in national borders—period. People should be free to enter into the USA at will, with no government oversight whatsoever.
This point is hotly disputed. What you describe is the anarchist position, and the LP is infested with them. Other libertarians recognize the essential role sovereignty plays in protection of liberty.
> They oppose any government regulation of financial markets.
Government regulation of financial markets has been catastrophic - it has created an oligopoly of “too big to fail” banks and other abuses. “Markets are not actually free unless fraud is vigorously combated and neither profits nor losses are socialized.” - hard to argue with that.
> They would abolish ALL public education at every level.
Bravo to them. GOP would be well to adopt this as public education is almost universally socialist indoctrination. If you send your kids to Catholic school they’ll learn Catholic values. If you send your kids to a government school they’ll learn government values.
> They oppose any government involvement in health care. They would eliminate the VA health system, medicare, & medicaide.
It’s indisputable that government involvement in the health care sector has been catastrophic. Veteran’s health care should be considered an inseparable part of national defense and should not be a separate, civilian institution left to languish in corrupt and unaccountable bureaucracy.
> They would eliminate Social Security and all government retirement systems. They have no plans to replace it with anything.
As anything put in government hands is inevitably stolen, I don’t see the problem here.
> They are isolationist—plain and simple. They would withdraw the US not only from NATO, but from all foreign countries and close any US military bases not on US soil.
It’s not isolationist to avoid entangling alliances. NATO has betrayed its mission and is now doing continuous harm to our national security. Keeping bases around the world is hideously expensive and its contribution to national security is dubious at best.
Losertarians have some good ideas but for the most part they are wackadoo stoners. Not all, just most.
Well, they’re about half right on most things. That’s more than I can say for practically all Democrats and quite a few Republicans.
They hate government so much they have become anarchists. I wish they could go live in Somalia for a year and learn what no effective government is really like.
2.8 is one I support - whole heartedly. Abolish public education. In it’s present form people that send their kids to public school, any public school are guilty of child abuse
I would also be somewhat of an isolationist though a muscle bound one - I want a powerful military to preserve the nation. Other places can live or die on their own.
But yeah, the Libertarians are pretty out there in a lot of ways
What make this funny is a lot of the #NeverTrump guys don’t like him because he isn’t pure enough, not a “Constitutional conservative” (Whatever that means). They think he is to liberal and then they run to this party?
The Libertarians lost me several years ago.
You have a very distorted view of the LP...and probably of libertarians, most of whom are in the RLC or other libertarian groups and not in the LP.
Note the internal contradictions in your own list. It is impossible to be isolationist and free trade/open borders. You can’t have it both ways.
The reality is that some libertarians (in and out of the LP) agree with Trump on the border while others are open border. Most libertarians are for some government control of immigrants to focus on terrorists, murderers, rapists, DUI drivers. And no immigrant, legal, illegal or naturalized should ever be allowed to even apply for welfare.
eVerify is where virturlly all libertarians agree. It is a big mistake to give the government the power to tell private employers whom they can and cannot employ. Anyone who thinks that will be used as intended is extremely naive.
Half of libertarians, like Ron Paul, are Pro-life. Half are in various stages of pro-abort.
Half of libertarians are extremely pro-Israel and have a foreign policy to match. But to them pro-Israel does not mean creating a place dependent on foreign welfare.
I have voted for a Constitution Party candidate for Congress, but I have never voted for a Libertarian Party candidate and have no intention of doing so. I’m a social conservative, and libertarians and social conservatives just don’t seem to be on the same page.
Talk about a wasted vote.
I’m as radical Libertarian as they come, but the platform itself is pure fantasy with respect to what’s practically attainable in the American political context.
The #NeverTrump cultists strike me as having a confusingly conceited and wildly impractical idea about what it means to be ‘principled’. As I’m pretty sure sitting on one’s ass and waiting for something 90-100% in accord with one’s beliefs, is probably not a viable path of attainment.
This site had a number of users vote libertarian the last two times for senators and representatives.
This is THE ONLY one that is a problem. ALL of the other sound like heaven to John Golt and me
Gary Johnson has reached out to Bill Kristol for his support. That didn’t take long.
Ping
For your interest
1.5 Abortion
They are pro-abortion for any reason at any time.
They do not believe in national borders--period. People should be free to enter into the USA at will, with no government oversight whatsoever.
They are isolationist--plain and simple. They would withdraw the US not only from NATO, but from all foreign countries and close any US military bases not on US soil.
These planks would indeed result in a very minimal government, and, if everything remained Constitutional, it's mostly the right idea, with the personal caveats and exceptions I've noted above.
Actually, Donald Trump should enough of a libertarian/classical liberal to suit the needs of most libertarians. Given what's happening with the Revolution and all, there's little reason to look at the LPUSA this year.
If the LPUSA weren't so wrong on Abortion, National Defense (naive) and Immigration (naive), they'd be a viable national party, as long as everything was coupled with a strong embrace and respect for the Constitution and our Founding Traditions.
When they trend toward anarchy is when I start to have issues with LPUSA dogma, especially with the Immigration/Borders and National Defense planks.
Which is why there's a distinct but important difference between libertarians and LPUSA members (capital 'L' Libertarians)...
Vote Trump!
I know of NO NeverTrump people who plan to vote libertarian. It would be antithetical to the reasons they are not voting for Trump in the first place.