Posted on 04/20/2023 7:54:08 PM PDT by Morgana
I agree. This is a CF and there is a lot of missing detail. I will try to look up the lawsuit complaint.
Threaten to end someone's career. It's that simple. This isn't 1776.
The original Milgram experiment used:
Please continue.
The experiment requires that you continue.
It is absolutely essential that you continue.
You have no other choice, you must continue.
Now we have the "or else." Continue or forfeit your medical career. There isn't even a need for a "continue or go to jail, continue or be shot."
See www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html#Milgram’s-Agency-Theory
I’m a frequent flier patient - I visit ER’s and am admitted to hospitals numerous times a year for various health issues and things like this keep me up at night. I’ve been in and out of health care as both patient and worker, and giving someone all of those meds while they have breathing difficulty is stupid, stupid, stupid. Hands-down. This coming from a pharmacy tech who has also been on all of those drugs at some point.
I have the knowledge to advocate for myself, and I told my husband that if I wind up with COVID in the hospital and docs want to push the FDA recommended treatments, send me to hospice. There they’ll give me whatever I want, and my docs know me well enough to go along with it.
The business with the DNR is mortifying. There needs to be a family approval of the order, from the POA or guardians, and not just a doctor who, for all we know, may be a eugenecist if he approved that diaphragm-paralyzing cocktail and then ordered that girl DNR.
Her sister may also be acting as the advocate because she’s familiar with care and routine, and the parents may not have wanted to go into the hospital of they were older and possibly unwell, worried about catching COVID. I advocated for a friend after his back surgery, and for my grandmother when my mom (POA) wasn’t available, but that was rare.
I get that the nurses were covering their asses - even if someone has, “I AM DNR” pinned to their shirt or tattoed on their body, that is enough in some areas to not act, especially if medical records and family can’t be located for whatever reason, or identity can’t be established. That wasn’t the case here, but with how things were during COVID chaos, I imagine they wanted to keep their jobs, and what the docs say at those hospitals goes. Politics and such. The lawsuit against the hospital and doctor is well-deserved.
Truth!
It’s horrible that the DNR order was issued without the family’s consent! Evil!
I caught that too. Nobody should touch any buttons in a hospital room. I agree on the DNR unless the adult patient gave the ok which is possible. I think they will lose this lawsuit.
Au contraire...
For anyone else curious, WI law on the subject of advance directives...
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/154/III/17/4
This is a fraught subject, one that most people do not understand. There are some conditions that make the heart stop which are reversible some of the time with CPR and drugs. A heart attack is the king of these. Let’s score that 100 points.
Then there are conditions that are never reversible -decapitating injury, for example. Let’s score that a zero.
All the other medical conditions are on a sliding scale of reversibility. And all of them used to be “scored”, and an appropriate resusscitation priority assigned, by personal physicians.
Two big changes have taken personal physicians out of hospitals, and family members are now routinely asked, “what do you want”?
So now, the physician making the decisions doesn’t know the patient, and families don’t know him. This usually results in asking “What do you want done about CPR for a GI bleeder losing blood faster than it can be transfused?”, when the family is offered something (”what you want”) that cannot realistically be obtained.
The bottom line is taht people who can’t reasonably be expected to benefit from CPR should not get CPR, whatever anybody “wants”.
What the heck was this patient being treated for that she was given morphine? The cocktail of drugs she was given would seem to indicate treatment for severe agitation so why the morphine? I think the parents have a far better case for medical malpractice.
Happens every day...I have DNR in my will. Otherwise, what does the doctor do?? You say she’ll live. The doctor said she won’t. Why do people believe in prolonging their loved ones suffering...You want your loved one on machines?? Do you really think that’s what they want?
COVID CPR is an good example.
People who die from COVID die because their alveolar membranes get too thick to pass oxygen.
They arrest AFTER full dose steroids, IL-6 or JAK inhibitors, 100% oxygen and antivirals.
When the moment of cardiac arrest arrives, there is literally nothing else to do.
NOt unless there is no family for the patient.
I have had to do that for my wife who is in a nursing home and can never be home, no heroic measures.
Ok, you chose DNR. That’s what you want. But if the rule is that the family is to choose whether to DNR or not, their choice should be respected.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.