Breaking News: Republican senators def Donald Trump by voting to strip Confederate generals' names from Army bases — despite White House threatening a veto

Daily Wail (UK) ^ | 10:27 EDT, 11 June 2020 | Nikki Schwab

[Olog-hai]

Republican senators rebelled against Donald Trump late Wednesday by voting to tell the Army to rename bases named after Confederate generals within the next three years.

The Armed Services Committee, whose members include Trump ultra-loyalist Tom Cotton, voted behind closed doors for the move, Roll Call first reported.

The voice vote was on an amendment to the annual Pentagon policy bill — the Defense Authorization Act — which was put forward by Sen. Elizabeth Warren, the Massachusetts Democrat and former presidential candidate.

It came hours after Donald Trump tweeted furiously that he will “not even consider” renaming Forts Bragg, Hood, Lee and others.

The move puts the Republican senators on a collision course with Trump, who White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany suggested would veto any legislation which renamed the bases. …

[DiogenesLamp]

I believe people will care that almost all elected Federal officials had no issues with the names of these military installations prior to this week. Then suddenly these elected officials had an issue with some of the names.

It's not just federal officials. All of corporate America is running scared of being labeled a "racist" for not bowing to the hat of "Black lives Matter" agitprop.

I just saw an article on Free Republic mentioning Apple computer and other tech companies are having to change the designations of "master" and "slave" for their equipment because it's insensitive to blacks or something.

NASCAR is getting on the "I'm a Coward!" bandwagon by banning all confederate flags from their facilities, as if they could really do that.

Everyone is falling all over themselves to virtue signal how much they want to "end racism" and the whole thing reminds me of the "Emperor's new clothes", where everyone is claiming to see them.

It's mass hysteria, not unlike that which carried Hitler to virtual emperor of Germany. Otherwise rational people are losing their minds on this stuff.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sure. And it was just coincidence they served to illustrate the relative status of blacks in the south during Jim Crow.

And how did these statues and monuments do that? Also, how was the status of blacks in the North at this same time?

You see, this is a topic I study from time to time, and I don't think you will like what you discover if you take the time to look at it objectively.

[semimojo]

I don’t know when military bases got confederate names...

Lee, Benning, Beauregard and Gordon were 1917 and Bragg was 1918. The rest were significantly later.

Guess it was a WWI boom.

[semimojo]

And how did these statues and monuments do that? Also, how was the status of blacks in the North at this same time?

By illustrating that the people in power, those controlling the resources and narrative, were whites nostalgic for the Confederacy.

Do you think those monuments would have been erected if blacks had significant power?

Whatabouting the North is irrelevant to the discussion.

[mass55th]

Then give them names like Fort Looney Tunes, Fort Alfred E. Neuman, Camp Howdy Doody, Fort Goofy, Fort Magilla Gorilla, Camp Grape Ape, Camp Snaggle Puss, etc. Might as well go for cartoon characters since the Republicans on the Senate Armed Forces Committee are acting like them.

I just called Inhofe's office and left the above message. I also told him that the Republicans on the Armed Services Committee need to do the right thing for this country, to grow a set, and stop pandering to the left on everything. Stop being gutless wonders.

[dfwgator]

Would they agree if they were renamed after Union Generals?

Somehow I think not.

[DiogenesLamp]

By illustrating that the people in power, those controlling the resources and narrative, were whites nostalgic for the Confederacy.

Statues do that, do they? To quote Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

In the North, there were also white people in power, controlling resources and narratives, and they didn't need to be nostalgic because they were still operating the levers of power. In fact, those same people are still in power today. They have various names, but I usually refer to them as the "Deep State" and "Crony Capitalists", and they mostly live in the Acela corridor.

Do you think those monuments would have been erected if blacks had significant power?

Not sure your point here. The blacks were not only a minority of the population, they were a poor minority. How do you see them having power at this point in history? AS bad as their condition was, I think it was considerably better than it used to be, don't you?

I guess if Lincoln had lived, they might have done that "Forty Acres and a Mule" thing, but more like they were going to be exploited by the Republicans for their votes, and given precious little in the way of real power.

Whatabouting the North is irrelevant to the discussion.

Singling out the South is an attempt to distract from the fact that this was the norm throughout the entire country. The South wasn't particularly bad about how they treated blacks. The worst racism against them tended to be in the Northern states.

You do know the Northern states still had slavery for six months after it had been eliminated in the Southern states?

[gogeo]

There you go.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I know that now is the worst time to be considering this, because you never want to give into a mob, but we simply never do what we should when there isn’t some sort of pressure.

And since I’m not born in the south, I guess maybe I can’t understand what it means.

On the other hand, nobody was born in the confederate states of america. nobody had their homeland attacked, nobody here lost a war, or had their cities pillaged. Nobody had their livelyhood ruined, or lost their sons and daughters or brothers and sisters.

Why don’t people who have “pride in the south” create a new flag. Use similar patterns if you happen to think that the confederate flag as any specially wonderful layout. Make your “southern pride” truly about southern pride, not some hand-me-down carry-over from a war people you never knew lost long ago.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I’m just not sure why anybody living in 2020 is in any way either nostalgic for the civil war, OR really cares one way or another whether the north, or the south, were more racist.

My daughter thinks we should take all the statues, and move them to actual civil war battlefields, put them in the historical context, and be done with it. I said I didn’t think the left would agree with that. But that is the current plan I think from the Virginia governor, if he can get past the pesky “legally bound to keep statue” problem.

[DiogenesLamp]

I’m just not sure why anybody living in 2020 is in any way either nostalgic for the civil war, OR really cares one way or another whether the north, or the south, were more racist.

"Nostalgic" isn't the operative word here. I don't know when you became politically aware, but for me it was quite some time ago. My political interests began with opposition to abortion, homosexuality normalization, and intolerance of religious expression in public venues.

This is where I started. I wanted to learn how we got into the mess we were in, because to solve a problem, it helps to know how you got into the problem in the first place.

Most of the abuses by the Federal Judiciary relied on the 14th amendment. Abortion is a "14th amendment" decision. Normalizing homosexual marriage was a "14th amendment" decision. Banning prayer in public schools was a "14th amendment" decision.

Invariably, the worst abuses by the Federal judiciary arose from the expansive interpretation of the 14th amendment.

So how did we get the 14th amendment? The Civil War.

So the roots of today's problems all too often trace back to that conflict.

The South advocated the position that the states had broad powers to govern themselves as they saw fit, including the powers to ban abortion, ban acceptance of homosexuality, tolerate religious expression in public venues such as schools.

The North did too at the time, but in the process of "reconstruction", they passed this botch of an amendment that gave future judges unlimited power to just dictate what they wanted to be the law instead of what the people wanted to be the law.

For the purpose for which the 14th was intended, it served a worthy interest, but I am certain that the framers of the 14th amendment never envisioned it tampering with "Natural born citizen" qualifications for the Presidency, banning prayer in schools, normalizing homosexuality, or creating a "right" to abortion.

This is as far away from it's intended purpose as it can possibly be, but that is the legacy of the badly written amendment, brought out in the aftermath of the Civil War.

[no-s]

It's my understanding that is true, but the road to redemption must start somewhere, and this particular implied promise is not yet broken.

Yes, I'm not justifying it, merely framing it. They see Orwell as a promise, not as chastening: “The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth.”

[DiogenesLamp]

Why don’t people who have “pride in the south” create a new flag. Use similar patterns if you happen to think that the confederate flag as any specially wonderful layout. Make your “southern pride” truly about southern pride, not some hand-me-down carry-over from a war people you never knew lost long ago.

What a lot of people are referring to as the "Confederate Flag" is more accurately known as "The battle flag of the army of northern Virginia."

The actual confederate (national) flag looks like this.

The "battle flag of the army of northern Virginia" is derived from the Scottish saltire because there were a great number of Scots that settled in the South.

I've read articles which argued that much of the animosity was due to the fact that the north was mostly settled by English, while the South had a far greater number of people from Scotland, and the Civil War was just another iteration of the long ongoing conflict between the English and the Scots.

There is a lot more going on here than people realize.

[semimojo]

The blacks were not only a minority of the population, they were a poor minority. How do you see them having power at this point in history?

I wouldn't expect them to have power, and the Confederate nostalgists were going to be sure to drive that point home.

It was also a message to the North that you can make all the laws you want but it isn't changing much on the ground here.

Singling out the South is an attempt to distract from the fact that this was the norm throughout the entire country.

You're the one who's studied this but I'm not aware of a lot of Confederate monuments in the Union states.

[Bull Snipe]

“Invariably, the worst abuses by the Federal judiciary arose from the expansive interpretation of the 14th amendment.”

I agree fully. I have read the amendment many times and still have missed the “right to privacy” clause that the court found in Roe v. Wade.

This has happened many times. I am till looking in my copy of the Constitution where it says that a there is no Constitutional path for a slave to become a citizen of the United State. As the Taney Court ruled in Scott v. Sanford.

They only way to correct a bad ruling from the Court of Black Robed deities is to Amend the Constitution. Which in the case of the 14th amendment was the objective in getting around Scott v. Sanford. But the 14th would have been just as effective in its aim, if they had just written the first couple of line and left it at that. Still would have a problem with birthright citizenship. that could have been solved by putting a time limit on the Amendment. The authors went overboard and added a lot of stuff to punish ex-Confederates, etc. You already know that.

[Bull Snipe]

Believe your are correct. They would want Fort Clinton, Fort Milk, Fort Floyd, or Fort Byrd.

[Bull Snipe]

“You do know the Northern states still had slavery for six months after it had been eliminated in the Southern states?”

Not quite accurate. Those slaves that resided in 13 Parishes in Louisiana, The Tidewater region of Virginia, the Coastal regions of North Carolina, South Carolina. Georgia, and a large portion of Tennessee were still slaves. These areas were exempt in the Emancipation Proclamation. While those slaves probably no longer labored for their former masters, they were still legally slaves in the eyes of the law, just as those slaves in Kentucky and Delaware. They would remain slaves until the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

[Bull Snipe]

these military leaders were all listed as being united states military

Not the case. Three of them, Benning, Gordon, and Rucker never served in the United States Army. Polk served six months then resigned his commission to become a minister.

[Bull Snipe]

As must the “Dixie Chicks”

[Bull Snipe]

they already named a US Navy ship after that pervert

A ship of the Military Sea Lift Command, not the United States Navy.