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March 1857
Harper's Magazine archives (subscription required) ^ | March 1857

Posted on 03/01/2017 5:02:55 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson

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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
The day of decision. Tomorrow starts a three-part analysis of “What the Court Decided.”

Continued from March 4 (reply #14).

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Don E. Fehrenbacher, The Dred Scott Case: Its Significance in American Law and Politics" (1978)

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Roger Taney Wikipedia page

21 posted on 03/06/2017 4:52:39 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
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Abraham Lincoln reacts to the Dred Scott decision, but first we have to catch up with what he has been doing for the past year. This excerpt starts back on June 19, 1856 (reply #25) .

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David Herbert Donald, Lincoln

22 posted on 03/06/2017 4:56:48 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
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Continued from election day – November 4, 1856 (reply #21) .

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Doris Kearns Goodwin, Team of Rivals

23 posted on 03/06/2017 5:00:29 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Gerg. So much to read, so little time ...

Maybe I can pull it up on my phone at the stable later. I hate reading on my phone.


24 posted on 03/06/2017 5:06:31 AM PST by Tax-chick (Reality does not go away when we close our eyes. It only disappears from our view.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Good stuff, Homer. Some thoughts.

Pretending bewilderment, he sauntered up to a neighbor, "Stranger, do you know where Lincoln lives?" he asked. "He used to live here."

What a delightful anecdote showing Lincoln's seemingly ever-present sense of humor. Makes me want to read more about him. Witty and down-to-earth.

[Lincoln felt the respect for the law and for the judicial process] offered a standard of rationality badly needed in a society threatened, on one hand, by the unreasoning populism of the Democrats, who believed the majority was always right, and he equally unreasonable moral absolutism of reformers like the abolitionists, who appealed to a higher law than even the Constitution. As recently as the 1856 campaign he had invoked the judiciary as the ultimate arbitrator of disputes over slavery

Unfortunately, Lincoln's insight into the unreasonableness of prevailing views on the left and the Right took him no further than to see the Supreme Court as the "standard of rationality". At this point he fell short of recognizing the Constitution was the legal standard of rationality over the federal government including the Supreme Court.

[After re-thinking the Dred Scott decision (guess I'm not the only one to have done that) Lincoln never again gave] deference to the ruling of the Supreme Court

Lincoln seems to have made significant advances in recognizing it is not the rule of man but the rule of law of the Constitution that is the ultimate legal standard. I don't know about "deference" (I think the presumption should be in the Court's favor), but I think this was a beneficial outcome for Lincoln, that he stopped giving automatic capitation to the integrity and accuracy of the Court.

25 posted on 03/06/2017 3:30:53 PM PST by Jim W N
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
During the War, Taney as a circuit judge ruled Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus unconstitutional and ordered a man freed. In line with Lincoln's new found disrespect for Taney and SCOTUS, he ignored the ruling. SCOTUS never did take up the issue of the suspension.

During the War, Taney did not go South and stayed in Washington. By the time of his death, both sides were disgusted with him.

26 posted on 03/06/2017 4:00:31 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: henkster
Taney reached his Dred Scott decision by applying the unconstitutional oxymoron of "Substantive Due Process".

Due process is simply a procedural requirement of notice and a fair hearing by any tribunal hearing a case.

[T]he rights of property are united with the rights of person, and placed on the same ground by the fifth amendment to the Constitution, which provides that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, and property, without due process of law. Scott v. Sanford, p 540. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393#writing-USSC_CR_0060_0393_ZO

Taney is quoting the guarantee of due process of the fifth amendment. But in his next sentence he does something else.

And an act of Congress which deprives a citizen of the United States of his liberty or property merely because he came himself or brought his property into a particular Territory of the United States, and who had committed no offence against the laws, could hardly be dignified with the name of due process of law. (Id.)

Here, Taney "transforms this requirement of fair procedures into a rule about the allowable substance of a statute." Robert Bork, The Tempting of America 31 (1990).

"This was the first appearance in American constitutional law of the concept of 'substantive due process.'" Id.

"[T]here is simply no avoiding the fact that he word that follows 'due' is 'process'" Id 32.

27 posted on 03/06/2017 4:07:27 PM PST by Jim W N
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
Continued from reply #21. This begins a 3-part analysis of the Dred Scott decision. Part 2 tomorrow.

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Don E. Fehrenbacher, The Dred Scott Case: Its Significance in American Law and Politics" (1978)

28 posted on 03/07/2017 7:02:02 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

In the early days of the republic Supreme Court opinions were not even printed or saved by the government. If any were printed, it was by private parties with an interest in such things. Those opinions were not, after all, laws. They were merely opinions in individual court cases. Nothing more.

The writer you quote concerning Dred Scott perhaps was among the number who have been fooled into giving court opinions the status of laws, a destructive fallacy that in our day has permeated almost all political minds throughout the country.

No need to agonize over Dred Scott, and its illogical, immoral convolutions. The bottom line is that the court unreasonably, arbitrarily, dehumanized, depersonified a human being, based on nothing more than their ethnic heritage and the pigment in their skin.

Ignore it. It was illicit. It was illegitimate. By every principle of western civilization, going all the way back to Cicero, such things are legal nullities. In other words, legally, they do not exist. Treat them accordingly.

“…The candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government, upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having, to that extent, practically resigned their government into the hands of that eminent tribunal.”

— Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address

“You seem . . . to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so . . . and their power [is] the more dangerous, as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots.”

— Thomas Jefferson, Letter to William Jarvis, Sept. 28, 1820

“Nothing in the Constitution has given them [the federal judges] a right to decide for the Executive, more than to the Executive to decide for them. . . . The opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch.”

— Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Abigail Adams, September 11, 1804

“Our Constitution . . . intending to establish three departments, co-ordinate and independent that they might check and balance one another, it has given—according to this opinion to one of them alone the right to prescribe rules for the government of others; and to that one, too, which is unelected by and independent of the nation. . . . The Constitution, on this hypothesis, is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please.”

— Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Judge Spencer Roane, Sept. 6, 1819

“One single object… [will merit] the endless gratitude of the society: that of restraining the judges from usurping legislation.”

— Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Livingston, March 25, 1825


29 posted on 03/07/2017 5:53:50 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
Democrats had previously refused to accept the Court's interpretation of the Constitution as permanently binding. During the Jackson Administration, the Attorney General had written:

"Whatever may be the force of the decision of the Supreme Court in binding the parties and settling their rights in the particular case before them, I am not prepared to admit that a construction given to the constitution by the Supreme Court in deciding any one or more cases fixes of itself irrevokably [sic] and permanently its construction in that particular and binds the states and the Legislative and executive branches of the General government, forever afterwards to conform to it and adopt it in every other case as the true reading of the instrument although all of them may unite in believing it erroneous."

Of course we should all know by now that the Attorney General for President Andrew Jackson who spoke those words was Roger B. Taney.

30 posted on 03/07/2017 7:10:08 PM PST by HandyDandy (Are we our own rulers?,.......or are we ruled by the judiciary?)
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
Continued from yesterday (reply #28).

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Don E. Fehrenbacher, The Dred Scott Case: Its Significance in American Law and Politics" (1978)

31 posted on 03/08/2017 4:56:10 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
Continued from February 19 (reply #99).

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The Diary of George Templeton Strong, Edited by Allan Nevins and Milton Halsey Thomas

32 posted on 03/08/2017 4:58:04 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Is this the Trinity Church near the Battery on Broadway, within viewing distance of Ground Zero?


33 posted on 03/08/2017 5:40:25 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: chajin

I think so. Broadway at Wall Street (near George Strong’s law office).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Church_(Manhattan)


34 posted on 03/08/2017 6:26:44 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Very interesting stuff about the college!


35 posted on 03/08/2017 8:56:18 AM PST by Tax-chick (Reality does not go away when we close our eyes. It only disappears from our view.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

There was a talk at my church last night by a priest of the Paulist order. He mentioned that his order was founded in New York in 1857 or 1858. I wonder if Mr. Strong, as a general observer of the scene, will bring up anything relevant.

Fr. James said the Paulists split from the Redemptorists because (those who became) the Paulists were giving public lectures to Protestants, while the Redemptorist leadership wanted them to concentrate on educating immigrant Catholics.


36 posted on 03/09/2017 2:29:04 AM PST by Tax-chick (Reality does not go away when we close our eyes. It only disappears from our view.)
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
Continued from yesterday (reply #31).

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Don E. Fehrenbacher, The Dred Scott Case: Its Significance in American Law and Politics" (1978)

37 posted on 03/09/2017 4:56:56 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

It is amazing to me that not that long ago in historic time serious people and the highest court in the United States were having these discussions about a human being. It certainly supports the argument that the institution of slavery dehumanized its proponents too.


38 posted on 03/09/2017 11:41:09 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
he ignored the ruling

When it comes to unconstitutional SCOTUS decisions, we need more of that, but accompanied by a published constitutionally-based rationale as to why the ruling was ignored.

39 posted on 03/09/2017 3:55:40 PM PST by Jim W N
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To: chajin; henkster; CougarGA7; BroJoeK; central_va; Larry Lucido; wagglebee; Colonel_Flagg; Amagi; ...
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Continued from February 25 (reply #187).

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Nicole Etcheson, Bleeding Kansas: Contested Liberty in the Civil War Era

40 posted on 03/10/2017 4:59:41 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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