Posted on 11/10/2016 2:07:44 PM PST by Swordmaker
Should creative pros worry about the 16GB limit on the new MacBook Pro?
No, because you don't need it. Here's why.
As Adrian Kingsley-Hughes pointed out in his article Do you need 32GB of RAM? the answer is probably no. But why? Isn't more RAM always better?
Random access memory (RAM) is a computer's scratch pad where work in process is stored. RAM is power hungry, hot, and -- less relevant at MBP prices -- expensive. When RAM fills up, the operating system starts paging least recently used blocks of data out of RAM into storage to free up capacity.
For years virtually all systems did not have enough memory to fully utilize system CPU and bandwidth, so the common wisdom was to add as much DRAM as you could afford. When DRAM was $5/MB, most people bumped into the affordability limit pretty quickly.
But DRAM got cheaper -- now you can buy DIMMs for $5/GB -- and economic considerations faded. But two other major changes have made macOS much less dependent on DRAM capacity.
First, Apple has pushed SSD performance to the max, writing at over 2GB/s and reading at over 3GB/s. That's important because the faster the storage is, the more fluid moving pages from DRAM to a drive becomes. The storage is literally an extension of the memory, and fast storage reduces paging overhead.
Second, macOS does memory compression, and has since Mavericks was released in 2013. Memory compression has two important benefits: 1) it expands the effective RAM capacity by 50 to 75 percent, and 2) and shrinks the page file, freeing up more DRAM capacity.
WHAT ABOUT VIDEO?
The main application that folks assume needs more than 16GB is video editing, especially 4k video. But that's not true either.
In a series of tests, Max Yuryev looked at the performance impact of more DRAM on Final Cut Pro X and Adobe Premiere performance. From 8GB to 16GB gave a boost, but FCPX performance was flat at 24GB and 32GB.
Premiere on macOS was similar, while on Windows performance did improve with more memory. Windows 10 now has memory compression too, so Premiere may not need more memory today.
In any case, if you're editing 4k, do it using proxy video. Even with super fast drives, 4k video soaks up bandwidth and CPU, so proxy media is the only way to fly.
THE STORAGE BITS TAKE
The combination of very fast storage, which makes paging overhead much less visible, and memory compression, which expands effective memory, makes 16GB of RAM plenty, even for heavy pro apps like Photoshop, FCPX, and Logic Pro X.
Less DRAM also increases battery life and reduces thermal load, enabling smaller and lighter systems. In the future high density storage class memory will remove much of the difference between storage and memory, perhaps eliminating notebook SSDs altogether.
Maybe, if you're a heads down video editor, getting paid by the hour, 32GB or more makes sense. But most people don't need it.
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Meh machines that are at best running Office.
Does more ram memory help in defeating enemies in video games?
Generally, no. Video games like fast Video RAM. . . the more the better.
This is a good article.
But this is what we’ve noticed:
>Premiere on macOS was similar, while on Windows performance did
>improve with more memory. Windows 10 now has memory
> compression
>too, so Premiere may not need more memory today.
We saw a good performance boost in Win 10 too, we’ve decided to phase out all MacBook and MacPro Desktops by Q1 2018. This affects a little under 2000 machines. Other factors in this switch are constant issues with OS X - the over all quality in the OS has not been there since early 2011, the increasing nature of a platform agnostic world and finally where the cost to support a Mac has been increasing the past few years.
Disclaimer: I’ve been an ardent Mac user since the late 1980s/early 1990s and at various companies, I’ve overseen some of the largest Mac fleets around But, at my current company, for business and performance reasons - it is now time to move our Enterprise to non-Apple hardware.
Your claims are exactly opposite of the findings of IBM's which is switching rapidly to Apple. . . and saving Millions in support costs due to far lower costs in servicing the Apple hardware.
JAMF conference: IBM cutting costs w/ largest enterprise Mac deployment, 100,000 by end of year October 19, 2016 — by Jordan Kahn, 9 to 5 Mac.
. . .
Back in May of last year, IBM started offering its employees Macs as an official alternative to PCs and chose Jamf to support the rollout. Last year, it noted that Macs were helping it cut down on support employees needed. This time around, thanks to the continued rollout, Previn noted that IBM’s total cost of ownership for devices is significantly improved with Macs. With cost of device, OS, support, resale value and deployment considered, IBM is saving a minimum of $265 per Mac on average versus a comparable PC:
"IBM is saving a minimum of $265 (up to $535 depending on model) per Mac compared to a PC, over a 4-year lifespan. While the upfront workstation investment is lower for PCs, the residual value for Mac is higher… The program’s success has improved IBM’s ability to attract and retain top talent – a key advantage in today’s competitive market" — IBM IT Director Fletcher Previn. . . IBM employees are now overwhelmingly choosing Macs versus the competition. Of its 400,000 employees, it now has a total of 217,000 macOS and iOS devices in use with a dedicated team of just 50 people supporting them.
(90,000 of those are Macs, and those 90,000 are supported by just SEVEN techs! — Swordmaker)
That evidence from IBM trumps your claims of ever increasing support cost for Macs. . . and they have a lot more Macs, and therefore experience, than you claim.
I am aware of the IBM transition and was part of that steering committee suggesting the transition, but I am no longer at IBM. So, I probably know more than you about this issue. And not to make a joke, it is IBM and they tend to be behind the curve a lot.
They’ve not maintained a substantial fleet of Apple technology until recently. I’ve been in IT Director/VP of IT and CIO positions for the past 25+ years in some significantly sized enterprises and many were Apple centric.
Since mid-2013, we’ve see an extreme hardware failure rate of Apple gear, ironically this is not user abuse - these includes panels, on board hardware and of course, the horrible Apple Thunderbolt monitors - which thankfully are not longer being made. We notice around a 9x failure when compared to other major brands. And we are a depot - meaning our certified techs can order the appropriate part and fix it in our HQ. But, parts are slow to arrive (a week) though we do get them much faster than the Apple store or an Apple authorized reseller. 2-3 weeks for the flaky power cable on the T-bolt monitors. WTF?
Therefore for monitors we started to do an aggressive migration in early 2015. The other issue with the Apple monitors - eye strain due to the glossy screen.
The physical durability of a MacBook Air or a Pro is bad. They are designed to look nice, but can’t take the punishment of a sales person on the road for one or two weeks at a time. We mandated sleeves for the laptops but often they are not used and the dings start to accumulate.
Another issue - actually, a repeat of the T-bolt monitors. I used to be able to custom order laptops with a matte screen and this went bye bye in 2015. Now everything is glossy, and for people who need to stare at a screen a lot - this is unbearable.
The OS has been an under performer for quite some time. The WiFi issues are horrendous - and these have continued for the past several releases. This is well documented, and may improve as they move away from Broadcom. This coupled with the flaky bluetooth issues are unacceptable.
When Sierra was released “Cooy and Paste” was broken for a subset of our users. Copy and Paste broken? Go figure.
The list of OS issues goes down to the kernel, and unexplained processes which consume too much of the CPU for our engineers. Our images are pretty flat and minimal and 3rd party Apps are always vetted.
3rd party vetting has been taking longer on OS X than in the current Win 10 environments for our team.
And don’t even mention Excel. At one very large and well known company in Silicon Valley, finance people are known two have two laptops - a Windows machine for their financial work and a Mac because it’s company mandated. Even the current iteration, while better, still can’t handle ungodly number of rows and columns the finance nerds use.
And in some situations, there are still limited options for specific software - you may have a few decent selections running on a Mac but there is a huge plethora with some great stuff running on a PC. DLP is one area. Their are selections for the Mac, but a greater selection for Win.
Another area was with our VPN, with a recent OS X release - we had to wait a few weeks before deploying the updated VPN client with the new OS. Whereas it just worked on our Win 10 machines.
The elephant in the room? Apple can’t support huge enterprises. They’ve always tried to back to the association called Mac IS and the organization devoted to science and engineering called MacSciTech.
Lastly, it comes down to the users. With Win 10, we’ve seen a desire to try something different and these are people who’ve used a Mac
What a pleasure to read! Thank you both for taking the time to educate us! I’ve been curious to see if the absence of Steve Jobs makes a qualitative difference in Apple’s production design and engineering? Also, this news about Broadcom fascinates because from what I’ve heard, they have changed leadership over the last several years. Has the new leaner management affected the quality of their product?
I see you’re a newby around here. Welcome to FreeRepublic.
Frankly, your claims don’t match our experience with Macs at all, especially your “9X failure rate compared to other major brands,” most certainly not when IBM reports an entirely different experience than your seeming bogus, not comparable to OUR REAL WORLD EXPERIENCES with our own Macs. . . so I’m just going to call BS to your entire screed!
That Apple branded Thunderbolt monitor you are complaining about? It was manufactured for Apple by LG and merely branded Apple with Apple’s logo. . . Internally it’s the same one they’re selling now with the LG brand. Any IT department worth its salt wouldn’t be buying Thunderbolt power cables as they broke and waiting 2-3 weeks for delivery. I’d keep a supply of a half dozen or so of such parts in stock and re-order when the supply drops to a predetermined inventory level! Why didn’t you? That’s a no brainer, standard inventory policy thing.
Any IT department that updates the OS before assuring that mission critical software such as your VPN will work is making a huge mistake. I’ve waited as long as a year before updating an OS to assure mission critical apps are all updated to the new OS. . . Yet you imply you’ve jumped right on the latest OSX updates and are upset a third party app hasn’t done THEIR job?
Your claims about the durability of the MacBook Air or Pro being “bad” is laughable, CAcons. I was at the MacWorld Expo where the MacBook Air was introduced. They were demonstrating its toughness by using off-the-shelf MacBook Airs as rungs in a step ladder on which a 110 lb model was climbing repeatedly up and down them in high heels! They swap out the Airs randomly and put them on the demo table for visitors to handle and USE! Each Apple notebook is machined out of a single block of Aircraft Aluminum 7000 Alloy, one of the toughest Aluminum Alloys available. They’ve been run over by Mack trucks with minimal damage and still run and YOU expect us to believe they are so fragile they can’t survive a week on the road with a salesman?!
I’ve seen used MacBooks that have come out of years of school use without protection . . . and they don’t show the dents you imply your sales force can create on a MacBook in one or two weeks!
As for your claims of being at IBM and being part of the team making the decision to go Apple. . . It sounds as if you pulled your CV out of your hat just to give your claims some weight. I just don’t believe you. There are many of us on FreeRepublic who ARE professionals in this field, and your statements don’t make the grade.
Your screed seems to have hit every major “anti-Apple talking point” of the non-Apple Windows using critics of the past ten years. I’ll give you that.
I live in Mexico and am wanting to buy the 13” cheapest MacBook. It just became available a couple days ago from the Apple Store Mexico (I have no idea where that is at). Normally I go to WalMart or Office Depot in Playa del Carmen or Cancun to purchase computers. With the wild conversion rates between Peso and Dollar right now the prices change DAILY! Should I just fly to Miami or Houston and pick one up in America? This country is phukkin crazy, And I cannot wear my TRUMP t-shirts anywhere!!!
Unless you have an absolute need for speed or power, I'd suggest looking at the online Apple Refurb Store in the US and select a later model MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. They come with the same "as new" factory warranty as a brand new model and you can add AppleCare the same as with a new model, but you can save a significant amount money over the newest models.
If you do desire the speed/power, then since I don't know the exchange rate/additional pricing in Mexico for the Macs, I'd suggest getting it in the USA. Be warned, there is a waiting time for delivery on these of two to three weeks as the demand is very high and you cannot just walk into a store and walk out with one just yet, that's still a couple three months away when availability catches up with demand. Apple Store Mexico is most likely their on-line store in Mexico, not a physical location.
Do you have any Best Buy stores in Mexico? They generally have an Apple mini-store within their store and are likely to have them or can order them. Same for Fry's Electronics.
Re: your Trump wearables in Mexico. . . it's not much safer in many parts of the USA, especially the East and West Coasts, any Black neighborhoods, or any institution of Lower "Not-So-Liberal (In the classical sense)" Education. . . even Elementary Schools. You put your life and limb at risk if you do.
NO WAY JOSE. I am going to get a new MacBook 13”. Buy hook or by crook. Thanx anyway 4 yer feedback.
Then I suggest you add three hundred to the price you are willing to pay and get the new one with the touch bar. I think you may be kicking yourself later if you don't. Those who are getting it are finding it extremely useful in comparison to the old design with normal function keys.
The lowest priced new MacBook Pro is not much of an improvement over the older MacBook Pros in power or function. . . that is why I was suggesting looking at a later model refurb. Those refurbs are generally not "refurbished" at all, but rather "left overs" from orders in which the total number in the order was reduced, or even unopened box models from large shipments that were cancelled at the last moment. Some, the actual really older models listed, are real refurbished returns, but I have had only one bad experience with a refurb. . . and Apple replaced it with a brand new one of the same model from their store stock!
For example, Apple is selling a March 2015 model (their latest before this year's model) MacBook Pro with a brand new warranty: Refurbished 13.3-inch MacBook Pro 2.7GHz Dual-core Intel i5 with Retina Display for $1,189.00.
For most of my browsing and daily use, I use a 2015 Retina 12" 1.1GHz Core "M" MacBook 8GB 1600 DDR3 RAM — 256GB SSD . . . not a Pro. . . which does amazingly well for those limited purposes I use on my lap. (I bought it as a "refurb" two months after Apple released this new model, saving $200 off the retail price of a "new" one!)
How is mail order In Mexico? Delivery safe enough? My MacBook got tossed over our back fence by the UPS driver. . . landed on my wood pile and slid down behind it. We were home waiting for it and he did not even try our front door. . . just tossed it. Claimed on his delivery notes he "hid it in the bushes by our back gate." Even though a $1300 delivery required a SIGNATURE! We don't HAVE a back gate and NO BUSHES IN SIGHT! SHEESH!
I don't know how close you are to Mexico City, but there's your answer. Good luck.
The retail stores do not carry any refurb products, only the online stores do that.
I purchased several MacBooks from the Apple Refurbished program within the last year; two MacBook Airs and one MacBook Pro. For relatives, to replace 5-year-old models. All the new "refurbished" ones were delivered looking brand new in the box, just like getting one at a store. They did not look like they were ever touched after leaving the factory. Saved hundreds of dollars on each one.
I live in Zona Maya. Riviera Maya. Not really Mexico when it comes to narko-kartels, violence, corruption. Only a CRAZY person would visit current Mexico!!!!
Sword, one more time I thank you for educating us. Geez, that was uncalled for by your UPS driver! Did you have a Trump sign or something?If your Macbook survived that treatment, it amazes me how far these machines have come!
The box was badly damaged but the Macbook inside was unharmed. I filed a major complaint with UPS and Apple. This was prior to the political campaign. . . It was reported delivered at 4:47 PM and the UPS driver reported himself "clocked out" at 5:20 PM. . . And unavailable to be called by his supervisor for any delivery details! I think he was in a hurry for a hot date!
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