View From the Bunker - Nazi Oaks Interview

View From the Bunker ^ | 6/10/2015 | Derek Gilbert

[Olympiad Fisherman]

Derek Gilbert interviews Mark Musser with regard to his book "Nazi Oaks" that lays down the startling German links between Monism, Social Darwinism, and environmentalism. In the 1800's, Ernst Haeckel, the father of German Social Darwinism and the very man who coined the term "ecology" in 1866, called Social Darwinism, Monism. He called his Darwinian environmentalist politically active group "The Monist League." "Mono" means "one." The point of Monism is there is no transcendental Creator or God Who stands outside of nature or history to govern the world with eternal values. Sometimes, as was the case with Haeckel (and Hitler too), Monism shades over into Pantheism that willfully confuses God with nature as an object to worship and follow ...

[virgil283]

Interesting O F

I'd heard that Hitler promoted vegetarianism, whole foods, and back to nature themes to Germans but this ties them to the same mind set of environmentalists.....hummmmmm.

[Borges]

Nazism derived much from 19th century Romanticism.

[Olympiad Fisherman]

Yes,German Monism laid the foundations for the environmental movement in the 1800’s, and is a virtual synonym for fascism.

[Olympiad Fisherman]

According to the author and others as well, it was a mixture of Romanticism, Existentialism, and Social Darwinism that laid the foundation in the 1800’s for the environmental movement.

[Borges]

The idea that civilization was a corrupting force goes back at least to Rousseau.

[Olympiad Fisherman]

Yes, the Noble Savage coming out of France, but the French Enlightenment was still rooted in humanism and reason - which the Germans strongly opposed in the 1800’s with Romanticism and Existentialism, and finally Social Darwinism starring Ernst Haeckel. While France has an underground proto-fascism churning underneath the surface in its historical past, it was especially open and promoted in Germany academia throughout the 1800’s.

[Borges]

There was a thread about Wagner yesterday and he was one of the great exponents (intentionally or not) of anti-rationalism.

[Olympiad Fisherman]

Wagner provided the musical background for the Nazis. His Romanticism was also loaded with Anti-Semitism.

[Borges]

More accurately his work was raped by the Nazis. It didn’t quite fit the narrative Hitler was pushing. It had to be censored to pass muster in Nazi Germany.

[Olympiad Fisherman]

You may want to read Paul Lawrence Rose’s “Wagner: Race and Revolution” - http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Revolution-Paul-Lawrence-Rose/dp/0300067453 that clearly shows Wagner’s Proto Nazi ideas. Hitler was friends with the Wagner family. The propaganda after the war and the holocaust is pretty thick by those wishing to defend Wagner from Nazism.

[Borges]

Wagner refused to sign a petition that called for repealing Jewish emancipation laws. His anti-semitism was tied into the Germany of his day not having a national culture...or at least not enough of one. He felt Jews were impeding that as a foreign culture within Germany. That’s why he disliked Catholics...he felt that Latin based culture was foreign to German speaking people. This not to defend his views. They are not defensible. But the ‘Wagner was a Proto Nazi’ thing is tired thinking. Hitler was friends primarily with Wagner’s daughter in law Winifred (who was critical of Hitler for his treatment of Jews despite how much she liked him personally) and his son in law Houston Stewart Chamberlin (who was a genuine proto Nazi). Wagner widow Cosima (a bigger anti-semite than Wagner himself) would have probably loved Hitler but by the time he came around she was bed ridden and suffering from Alzheimer’s disease.

But the family cooperated way too much with the regime and there is no escaping that. Kudos to Wagner’s granddaughter Friedlind for coming to the U.S. and making anti-Nazi radio broadcasts.