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Information on 45-70 lever guns

Posted on 01/13/2013 5:54:45 AM PST by TexasM1A

Morning folks, I was wondering if any of you have had any experience with .45-70 chambered rifles. I am in the market for one but I truly know next to nothing about them. Most of the people I would normally go to for information regarding a firearm are in a the same boat as me, they have no knowledge of these firearms.

I have been searching the internet but have found few places/people that break down the pros and cons of the various models/manufacturers. I would like some thing that is competition legal, but competitive shooting is not the reason why I am going to purchase it.

Thanks much.


TOPICS: Hobbies; Miscellaneous; Outdoors; Sports
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment
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1 posted on 01/13/2013 5:54:48 AM PST by TexasM1A
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To: TexasM1A

Ask Quigley.


2 posted on 01/13/2013 5:57:14 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: csmusaret

http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=115


3 posted on 01/13/2013 6:01:59 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: csmusaret

I had one...a Marlin.

It kicked like a mule...after shooting the five rounds, one in the chamber and four in reserve, one doesn’t want to shoot it for a while.


4 posted on 01/13/2013 6:04:25 AM PST by montomike (Politics should be about service and not a lucrative, money-making opportunity!)
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To: TexasM1A

I just bailed off into the 45-70 world. Bought a stainless TC Encore Katahdin...20” bull barrel, very short overall, capable of killing anything on the planet. Not as violent as I suspected. Lots of gun choices in the chambering; single shot (Encore, Handi or Ruger No.1), lever action or even bolt guns (Siamese Mausers). The lever guns are popular but have some limitations like overall cartridge length must allow for the action to operate. It can be loaded up or down depending on your needs. It’s well over 100 years old and still around so there must be something admirable about it. It ain’t real cheap to shoot.


5 posted on 01/13/2013 6:07:43 AM PST by 762X51
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To: TexasM1A

I have a Marlin 1895 with a Williams Foolproof peep sight. With the 45/70 you really need to reload to utilize the power capability of the rifle you have.


6 posted on 01/13/2013 6:08:19 AM PST by Elderberry
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To: TexasM1A
The origin of the .45-70 began as a US Army round after the War of Northern Aggression. It was developed from the .50-70 to achieve a flatter trajectory. It was of course black powder. It was used in a several rifles, the most common being the Trapdoor Springfield. Sporting rifles were also later chambered for it.

As a black powder (or equivalent pressure) load, it is most enemic by modern standards. WARNING: There are several “approved loadings” at various cup pressures and that care must be taken to avoid use modern loadings in older guns or you will get a grenade.

With modern smokeless loadings, the .45-70 is a capable round, but its not comparable to the big boy magnums. That said, the Hornady Leverevolution takes a 325gr bullet to 2050 fps, which is very respectable compared to the low pressure loads with a 405gr bullet at 1100 fps. All of that said, you are still going to have a rainbow trajectory that requires 2.5’ of hold over at 300yds.

7 posted on 01/13/2013 6:11:21 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: TexasM1A

Why do you want an elephant killer? As others said, painful to shoot. .308, 30-06, or 300 Win Mag is all you need.....

Unless you just love lever action and hurting after shooting - which means shooting few rounds and rarely.....


8 posted on 01/13/2013 6:11:21 AM PST by Arlis (.)
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To: 762X51

I shot a Remington rolling block and Siamese mauser in .45-70.The Mauser will handle a 500 grain cast bullet at 1800fps.That load should kill about anything.


9 posted on 01/13/2013 6:14:44 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Arlis

I once read that the .45-70 was used on buffalo and Indians.
You know what happened...


10 posted on 01/13/2013 6:14:55 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: TexasM1A

Of course, if you have to shoot someone, make sure you blow them in two. </sarc>


11 posted on 01/13/2013 6:15:59 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: TexasM1A
I would like some thing that is competition legal, but competitive shooting is not the reason why I am going to purchase it.

So what is your reason for wanting it?

12 posted on 01/13/2013 6:20:10 AM PST by umgud
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To: TexasM1A

Hickok45 has some good YouTube videos about that caliber:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hickok45+45-70&oq=hickok45+45-70&gs_l=youtube.3..0.53769.58508.0.62684.10.9.0.1.1.0.65.516.9.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.YXIyWG-z30k


13 posted on 01/13/2013 6:22:18 AM PST by RandallFlagg
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To: SampleMan

Only 2.5 feet at 300 yards? Surprising (to me) I would have guessed about twice that. Too lazy to google ballistics on this though. So, I’ll take your word for it :)


14 posted on 01/13/2013 6:22:58 AM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: TexasM1A

I have never noticed the recoil from my Marlin as being excessive. I load with 300gr. bullets for deer. The gun has a padded butt plate. Now if you imagine a need for 500 grain bullets. The Marlin’s twist is too slow and the cartridge length too long for the gun. And recoil goes up with bullet weight.


15 posted on 01/13/2013 6:29:58 AM PST by Elderberry
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To: TexasM1A

Thanks for all of the responses, I do appreciate it especially about the pressures.
There is alot to learn about these firearms it appears.
It is going to be an interesting exercise.

Thanks.


16 posted on 01/13/2013 6:31:15 AM PST by TexasM1A
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To: snoringbear
Only 2.5 feet at 300 yards? Surprising (to me) I would have guessed about twice that. Too lazy to google ballistics on this though. So, I’ll take your word for it :)

That is in reference to the Hornady Leverevolution load, which has a spitzer tip and higher velocities. The standard loads have much more drop.

I have a couple of Trapdoors and getting low pressure ammunition for them is expensive. Reloading is also a trick, as low pressure loadings require much softer brass in order to seal the neck.

For a modern brush gun, I carry a Marlin .444.

17 posted on 01/13/2013 6:31:54 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: csmusaret

I believe that was a .45-120.


18 posted on 01/13/2013 6:32:26 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: IMR 4350

.45-110 but the 110 stood for 110 grains of black powder.


19 posted on 01/13/2013 6:34:04 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: TexasM1A

Thanks for all of the responses, I do appreciate it especially about the pressures.
There is alot to learn about these firearms it appears.
It is going to be an interesting exercise.

Thanks.


20 posted on 01/13/2013 6:35:27 AM PST by TexasM1A
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To: montomike
I shucked out 5 rounds of 405gr as fast as i could on some wild dogs.

Got 3 out of 5 of the dogs.

Damn near got me too. Learned my lesson.

I started loading the 350gr after that.

21 posted on 01/13/2013 6:37:40 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: umgud

I have a Marlin .30-.30 now, obviously not the same animal, but I would like to step up in caliber to see if I can become proficient with it.
If I can and I can maintain a certain level of proficiency I might try competitive shooting.
I like Lever Rifles, I know they are not “sexy” or “tactical” but the simplicity for lack of a better word appeals to me.


22 posted on 01/13/2013 6:39:41 AM PST by TexasM1A
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To: TexasM1A

I’ve been hunting with a 45-70 for about a dozen years. I have a Marlin guide gun that I bought when they first came out. I had the factory replace the ported barrel with a non-ported one, the porting was too loud for me. I’m not adverse to recoil, but did put a decerlerator butt pad on. I hand load, from light 405 grain lead around 1100 fps to 350 grain jacketed soft nose at about 1900 fps. I really like the lever evolution load it has amazingly flat trajectory for a huge bullet. Save those cases, though, they are about 0.1” shorter than saami specs, to make room for the flex tip.

It’s a handy easy to carry gun. I put a Trijicon 1.25 x 4 scope on it, the green dot on the cross hair is easy for my aging eyes to pick up. I’ve taken deer at 250 yards, it drops ‘em like a bag of rocks.

If you can, find a buddy to let you shoot one, I think you’ll like it.


23 posted on 01/13/2013 6:39:48 AM PST by posse rider (posserider)
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To: csmusaret

I didn’t remember if it was the 110 or the 120, but I knew it wasn’t .45-70.


24 posted on 01/13/2013 6:47:14 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: posse rider

I will try and see if I can rent one at a range around here, nobody I know has one of these.
If you dont mind me asking, what type of terrain do you hunt in?.
For my self it will be Texas Hill country for Hogs/Javelina and southeast Texas for deer.


25 posted on 01/13/2013 6:48:53 AM PST by TexasM1A
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To: csmusaret

Ask Quigley.

He didn’t shoot a 45-70.


26 posted on 01/13/2013 6:54:31 AM PST by Dusty Road
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To: TexasM1A

So you want, not need s 45-70. More power to you. I view this round as short range game getter. A lot of folks use it for very big game or even self defense against big game (bears, etc.). But, there is also a lot of folks competing with them too, though in this use, they usually go for longer barrels.


27 posted on 01/13/2013 6:56:15 AM PST by umgud
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To: TexasM1A

Made in America.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-45-70.cfm


28 posted on 01/13/2013 7:01:49 AM PST by Patriot365
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To: TexasM1A

Check with Piers Morgan. He knows all about such things. I’m pretty sure that it’s an assault rifle though since it doesn’t use flint to initiate the powder.


29 posted on 01/13/2013 7:07:38 AM PST by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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To: TexasM1A

ping answer later.


30 posted on 01/13/2013 7:13:39 AM PST by TNoldman (AN AMERICAN FOR A MUSLIM/BHO FREE AMERICA.)
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To: SampleMan

war of northern aggression????

If my history is correct, the confederacy fired the first shots....

just sayin’....


31 posted on 01/13/2013 7:24:17 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: TexasM1A

I had one made up on a Siamese Mauser action. The gunsmith reworked the action for better feeding and installed a Shaw barrel. To save money he used the original stock.

Like others have said, it kicked like a mule and I am not particularly sensitive to recoil. It might have been partly due to the stock but I ended up selling it after a short time.


32 posted on 01/13/2013 7:26:32 AM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: TexasM1A

This is a hell of a round you just have a learning curve in shooting it, its like lobbing a punkin. I shoot mine out to 500 to 600 yards and regularly hit my targets yep lots of hold over but it goes straight I think you could shoot it through a tornado and hit your target lol.

Ammo is a bit pricy but once you get your brass you can reload them forever! If you want a round with lots pf punch and goes straight try a 454 casull that dang round about broke my shoulder wasn’t expecting that in a pistol cartridge!

NEF makes some great break down single shots and reasonably priced just go to their web site Marlins are great guns also but a bit pricey...


33 posted on 01/13/2013 7:43:15 AM PST by Lees Swrd ("Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe and preserve order in the world as well")
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To: TexasM1A

Unsure on the rifle front but I have a friend who has a 45-70 revolver for sale and that sucker will dislocate your arm if you aren’t holding it securely.


34 posted on 01/13/2013 7:48:12 AM PST by mnehring
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To: TexasM1A

Here is something ‘45-70’ related:

“The Sandy Hook Tests of 1879”, Sandy Hook, Long Island, NY, pre-bloomberg and Cuomo, of course!

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/13422-45-70-two-miles-sandy-hook-tests-1879-a.html

This is reason enough to own a 45-70!


35 posted on 01/13/2013 8:35:45 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: TexasM1A
in the same boat as me

I see you're planning ahead. Good. Very good.

36 posted on 01/13/2013 8:37:41 AM PST by Moltke ("I am Dr. Sonderborg," he said, "and I don't want any nonsense.")
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To: TexasM1A

Interested in a .45-70. Has anyone used both modern smokeless and cased black powder with one? Differences and impressions?


37 posted on 01/13/2013 8:41:03 AM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: csmusaret

Egads! I hate websites that start blasting music as soon as you open them. Give a fair warning at least!

(There’s a *very* small control panel to shut it off in the upper left-hand corner.)


38 posted on 01/13/2013 8:42:15 AM PST by Moltke ("I am Dr. Sonderborg," he said, "and I don't want any nonsense.")
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To: TexasM1A

I’ve watched SASS shooters shooting the Marlin Guide Gun with smokeless loads. They were fine short range.
My wife has a Pedersoli reproduction Trapdoor with a VERY long barrel. After learning to use the ladder sight, we can hit targets out to 800 yards or better. The loads are home-loaded black powder with original army spec bullets (425grain?) to be SASS legal. It sure is fun to shoot that trapdoor. Since it’s black powder, recoil is more of a shove than a sudden impact.


39 posted on 01/13/2013 8:46:54 AM PST by Rio (Tempis Fugit.)
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To: TexasM1A
Just got done putting my Springfield through its paces over vacation...

...tons of fun :-)

Currently, there are three generally available rounds in the .45-70 class: the .45-70, the .444 Marlin and the .450 Marlin. While they have a lot of similarities and can each generally do most things the others will do, there are enough differences that, depending on your specific desires and needs one may clearly be a "best choice" of the three.

Research them, the firearms they come in, the commercial loadings available, the availability of reloading components, etc. and I think one will eventually stand out from the others.

40 posted on 01/13/2013 8:50:09 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: joe fonebone

History is written by the winners. If I goad you into a fight and you throw the first punch, who is the agressor? Lincoln’s decision to reinforce Fort Sumter was the agression. Tat fleet was a day away and if allowed to sail into Charleston Harbor, the Confederates would have been exposed to fire from the front and the rear.

So, the term Northern agression is correct.

“The attempt to represent us as the aggressors, is as unfounded as the complaint made by the wolf against the lamb in the familiar fable. He who makes the assault is not necessarily he that strikes the first blow or fires the first gun.” Jefferson Davis


41 posted on 01/13/2013 8:51:43 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: joe fonebone
If my history is correct, the confederacy fired the first shots....

Uninvited guests ;-)

42 posted on 01/13/2013 9:05:44 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: TexasM1A

A co-worker has one.

He likes it...but rarely uses it...just occassionally fires a few rounds to remind himself that he has it.

He doesn’t hunt with it...apparently the ammunition costs too much for him to get in alot of practice with it.


43 posted on 01/13/2013 9:11:28 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Elderberry

I saw one on the wall of a gun shop in Tulsa, OK forty three years ago.

It was a Winchester 1894. Now, Winchester never made a 45-70 for the 1894 so I asked about it.

It was handmade by a professional gunsmith to see how it would do in that caliber. The owner refused to fire it as it was still a very light rifle.


44 posted on 01/13/2013 9:12:35 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name! See new paintings!)
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To: Farmer Dean

***I shot a Remington rolling block and Siamese Mauser in .45-70.***

I remember when gun magazines were advertizing those! Wish I could have gotten one.

I did end up with a 1897 7MM Rem Rolling Block which I had converted to a .444 Marlin as it was the only conversion kit (Numrich Arms) I could find at that time. Not real accurate as the twist is not tight enough.

I also remember when the magazines had Martini Henry rifles for sale.


45 posted on 01/13/2013 9:18:21 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name! See new paintings!)
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To: TexasM1A

45/70 is actually a pretty popular caliber in Alaska, makes a great brush bear gun.


46 posted on 01/13/2013 9:19:01 AM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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To: TexasM1A

Why are you in the market for a rifle you know nothing about? For what purpose do you want it? When I’m in the market for a firearm I figure out what I want said firearm to do and then decide which type, caliber, etc. is most conducive to doing that job.


47 posted on 01/13/2013 9:23:11 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: umgud

“So what is your reason for wanting it?”

Everyone knows you need something like that as a hedge against alien (from outer space) invasion. An AR-15 might be ok against little green men, but when confronted by a giant BEM (Bug Eyed Monster) you want a sure one shot stop.


48 posted on 01/13/2013 9:27:33 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

Go for the .458 SOCOM variant of the AR-15 instead. Same bullet, more energy, lighter platform and easier to customize as far as optics, etc.


49 posted on 01/13/2013 9:39:46 AM PST by CarmichaelPatriot
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To: CarmichaelPatriot

Sarah Palin was given one that had a brushbuster caliber, I think it was the .450.

I would love to have the recoil absorbing abilities of an AR with the close range literal knock down kinetic energy of a big caliber.


50 posted on 01/13/2013 9:46:15 AM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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