Posted on 01/09/2013 11:12:23 AM PST by massmike
Baseball writers didn't elect Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens into the Hall of Fame on Wednesday, making an apparent statement on their suspected use of performance-enhancing drugs.
In fact, they failed to elect anyone, something that has only happened twice in the Hall's history.
Since 1965, the only years the writers didn't elect a candidate were when Yogi Berra topped the 1971 vote by appearing on 67 percent of the ballots cast and when Phil Niekro headed the 1996 ballot at 68 percent. Both were chosen the following years when they achieved the 75 percent necessary for election.
Also on the ballot for the first time were Sammy Sosa and Mike Piazza, power hitters whose statistics have been questioned because of the Steroids Era, and Craig Biggio, 20th on the career list with 3,060 hits — all for the Houston Astros. Curt Schilling, 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in postseason play, was another ballot rookie.
Several holdovers from last year also were on the 37-player ballot, including Jack Morris (67 percent), Jeff Bagwell (56 percent), Lee Smith (51 percent) and Tim Raines (49 percent).
In advance of Wednesday's announcement, The Baseball Think Factory website compiled votes by writers who made their opinions public and with 159 ballots had everyone falling short of admission. Biggio was at 69 percent, followed by Morris (63), Bagwell (61), Raines (61), Piazza (60), Bonds (43) and Clemens (43).
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcsports.msnbc.com ...
I have mixed feelings on Rose, but his case is different than the wife beaters, drunks, etc., you cite. What he did directly put the integrity of the game in jeopardy.
I’m not saying that we should ignore all off-field behavior, but comparing it to gambling on games involving your team or using PEDs is comparing apples to oranges.
>>>The gambling rule is quite explicit, clear, and non-negotiable. Baseball employees that gamble on baseball, AT ALL, are banned for life. A copy of that rule is posted in every locker room and dugout, including the dugout from which Ruth placed bets using the dugout phone.
It’s not about being saints, it’s about not being a dumbass.<<<
Actually, betting on games not involving your own team is a one year suspension. Betting for or against your own team is a lifetime ban.
I have somewhat mixed feelings on Rose. On one hand, he created a situation where he put the integrity of the game at great risk. On the other hand, he never bet against his own team, so he didn’t actually fix games (the fear of which is the underlying reason for the rule against gambling). Of course betting on a team you are managing could cause you to exhaust too many resources (particularly pitchers) in one game that you had bet on.
I don’t think Rose should get in, but I’d rather see him get in the HOF than Bonds, Clemmens, Palmiero, etc.
Whether he ever gets in the HOF or not, Rose and anyone else who gambles in games involving his own team, should NEVER be allowed to be a player, manager or other employee of MLB or any of its franchises.
If you have done things that are illegal or unethical but not against the rules of the game, then I'm willing to let the HOF voters make up their own minds.
>> Greg Maddux will likely get in, and there are other first-time names next year who will draw a goodly number of votes.
I think Tom Glavine is also eligible next year.
Betting for the team really isn’t better, what future games is he “throwing” by over using players for the game he bet on. And then of course there’s the question of if you believe him. He’d said for years he never bet on baseball, then he admitting betting on baseball but never games he participated in, now he admits to betting on those games but always to win. I won’t be surprised if one of these days he says he bet them to lose but always beating the spread.
And yes, supposedly he only bet on the Reds to win, but apparently he didn't bet when a certain pitcher started (I forget the name).
So he not only violated the lifetime ban for gambling, he was a cheater, too. He used inside information on his players and knew when to bet big, and when to hold back.
And yes as manager he could easily affect the game. Point spreads, etc.
It's not just gambling, it's dirty gambling, playing with your own marked deck of cards.
I still love the guy for what he did on the field.
But despise him for his lying and cheating.
Can't put him in the Hall. And it breaks my heart.
I agree that betting on your own team (especially as a manager) is a big problem, but it is FAR better than betting against your team, which would almost certainly lead to thrown games.
There is generally no point spread in baseball, they use odds instead, so “point shaving” (run shaving?) wouldn’t be a concern.
The risk of overusing a player (probably a pitcher) to win a game you bet on, is a legitimate problem, but not nearly as bad as betting against your team.
IIRC, at the time the scandal broke, I read somewhere that Rose may have bet on the Reds to win EVERY game they played (which apparently pretty much guarantees losing money due to the odds). If that is really true, he probably wouldn’t overuse a pitcher or pitchers to win one game.
I’m not trying to minimize what he did or say he should be in the HOF, but betting against his team would have been 10,000 times worse.
The one reason I’d kind of like him to be in the HOF is I’d like the INVESTIGATION to be in the HOF, right there under his bust readable by all.
Actually that’s potentially useful for all the roid era guys too. Make an albatross wing for all the players with amazing stats and serious character issues, and include the whole story on all of them.
So what's the difference in not electing any of this years nominees and likely the same nominees being up for vote next year?
>>>Actually that’s potentially useful for all the roid era guys too. Make an albatross wing for all the players with amazing stats and serious character issues, and include the whole story on all of them.<<<
That wing should be built in the shape of an asterisk. :-)
Does anyone actually think that if Clemens was REALLY trying to hit Piazza that the bat fragment throw would have been into the ground? Clemens is getting a raw deal on this one...and Piazza is lucky Clemens WASN'T trying to hit him.
It's good to be the little fish in the pan while the big fish are getting fried...........
How do you know that since the roid-rangers only went after the big hitters with the big figures?
You actually think that with the rampant availability of so-called steroids that only the top players were using them??????
Give me a F'n break..........
I think it would be fitting if the first steriod era HOF were Maddux and nobody else.
Who said only top players used steroids? I said that not everyone took steroids. That’s all. I didn’t say anything about just top players. That was your straw man.
And I said: "How do you know that?"
Well, how DO you know that?
Straw man? Then name me 10, no 5, no 3, .235 ave hitters who underwent the same scrutiny as Conseco, Bonds and Clemens then get back to me........
The point wasn’t missed.
My point is ALL of sports are inclusive in their use of “performance enhancing drugs”.
Cortisone, painkiller injections, what have you. RG III should point you in the right direction.
IMO, there is a HUGE amount of hypocrisy in the “sporting” world and the “people” who decide what amounts to greatness.
I compare any “Hall of Fame” to every other self serving, self aggrandizing awards show out there.
And at the professional level, the CORPORATE world, (not that the NCAA isn’t there too) winning is EVERYTHING. Look at the joke the Olympics has become.
Yeah. Good point. It’s not how well one plays, it’s how well one cheats. Glad I dropped out these days. I really shouldn’t have bothered posting on this thread....
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