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Exclusive: Cops, detectives,.... tell Natural News they will not enforce gun confiscation orders
NaturalNews ^ | 12/19/2012 | Mike Adams

Posted on 12/19/2012 9:01:37 PM PST by djf

(NaturalNews) In the wake of the recent Sandy Hook shooting, I reached out to my contacts in law enforcement, military and (retired) FBI over the last three days, asking three simple questions:

#1) Do you think Obama will use executive orders to demand nationwide gun confiscation?

#2) If such an order is given, will you or fellow members of your organization enforce it against the citizens? (And if so, how?)

#3) What is the solution to stopping future mass shootings?

I posed these questions to one ex-FBI agent, one retired Sheriff's deputy, two active duty city police detectives, one retired former police captain of a major U.S. city, two U.S. Army veterans and one USMC veteran, discharged several years ago after two tours in Afghanistan during which he sustained a severe personal injury. For obvious reasons, none of them wish to be identified by name, but their answers below speak to their credibility and authenticity.

Here are their answers.

#1) Will Obama use Executive Order to call for gun confiscation? The majority of those answering this question told me they did not believe Obama would call for outright gun confiscation. One detective told me, "Obama will probably try to roll out an incremental restriction similar to the '94 Clinton assault weapons ban." He would then wait for another mass shooting and use that event to ratchet up the restrictions, I was told.

Only two of the eight people I questioned thought that Obama would call for outright gun confiscation, and one of those believed it would only be a restriction on so-called "assault rifles" but not shotguns or handguns.

Everyone believed that Obama would at minimum call for restrictions on weapon magazine capacity, most likely seeking to limit that to ten rounds per magazine (which is also the current limit in California). I was also told that Obama might attempt to federalize mandatory waiting periods for gun purchases, which already exist in some states but not all.

#2) Will you enforce gun confiscation against the citizens? On this issue, the answer was resounding and unanimous: NO!

The retired police captain told me that, "Door-to-door confiscation by men and women in blue [i.e. city cops] would be a suicide mission." If ordered to conduct such gun confiscation actions, many would simply resign on the spot rather than risk their lives in firefights with determined gun owners, he explained. "Our officers are not generally willing to assume the increased risk of such a police action."

He also explained, importantly, that most police officers have not even been trained to conduct sweeping, community-level weapons confiscation programs. "This goes against all our community outreach efforts where we try to earn the trust of the community." If cops suddenly became gun confiscation enforcers, trust would break down and policing would become extremely difficult, he explained.

The USMC veteran told me that some of the younger soldiers would go along with gun confiscation if ordered, but that nearly all the older military personnel would likely refuse such orders, even at risk of a court martial. "Some of the guys actually talked about this on deployment. The E-1's might follow those orders but most of us who managed to stay alive through a couple of tours are too smart for that. You'd have AWOL out the ass. We didn't sign up to engage Americans as enemy combatants. The answer would be F*%K NO all the way up the chain of command."

One of the police detectives explained another reason for saying no: "There is no love for gun confiscation in law enforcement. We're all gun owners and most of us grew up with guns, hunting, target shooting or just collecting. Most of us have gun collections when we're off duty, and Obama himself isn't well liked across law enforcement. There's no way police officers are going to put their lives on the line to go along with an order from a President who really doesn't have moral authority among cops."

When I asked what if Bush had called for gun confiscation, and would cops be more likely to comply if the order was given by a Republican, the reply was, "For some guys, yes, because they will listen to a Republican more than a Democrat, but still for rank-and-file officers who are just here collecting a paycheck for a risky job, they're no way they're going to engage in what is basically a war action just to keep that job. You can't pay them enough to pull that kind of duty, gun confiscation."

I was told by more than one person in this group that any effort by Obama to invoke gun confiscation could lead America to civil war if any real effort were made to enforce it.

#3) What is the solution to stopping mass shootings? The former police captain explained that the real problem with shootings in his city was, "dirt-cheap handguns" also called "Saturday Night Specials." As he explained, "People that spend $500 on a nice handgun are almost never the problem when it comes to violent crime. It's the ones who pick up a junk gun for $50 on the street."

When I asked him about a practical solution to reduce shootings, he said that in his opinion, "Levying new taxes on all handguns like the tax stamps on class three weapons" would likely prevent new guns from being purchased by most violent criminals, but it wouldn't take guns out of the hands of criminals who already have them. "These people will break into your car to steal the coins out of your vehicle console. They have no morals, no limits. There's almost nothing they won't do to get what they want, which is usually drugs."

As background, the BATF currently levies a $200 tax stamp for the transfer of any suppressor (silencer), short-barreled rifle, or full-auto weapon, all of which are VERY expensive to acquire and require extensive background checks to legally own.

"Most of the gun violence in our city is drug addicts raiding the homes of other drug addicts. The statistics might appear to show a lot of armed robberies and shootings, but it's really just a small subset of homes or apartments getting raided over and over again by the same people, the drug dealers." When I asked what the real drug problem was, he answered without hesitation. "Meth." Not pot, not marijuana, not even heroin. Meth is the drug that drives violent crime in America's cities.

The retired Sheriff's deputy told me that the solution was to, "Arm the teachers. Tear down the 'gun free zone' signs and put weapons in the hands of school personnel."

This opinion was seconded by one of the active-duty police detectives, who said he had actually worked several shootings, but never a mass shooting. "A mass shooting takes time, often several minutes," he explained. "That's too fast for the police to arrive on scene, but it's plenty of time for someone already on location to pursue and engage the active shooter."

He went on to explain that in the training they have been receiving over the last five years, they have been taught that ANY engagement of an active shooter -- even shots that don't hit the shooter -- are now believed among law enforcement to disrupt the shooter and force him to seek cover, during which his massacre is interrupted and delayed. Where police have traditionally been trained to "confirm your sight picture" of weapon sights on the target before pulling the trigger, that training is being modified in some cities where, in the context of a mass shooter firing off a large number of rounds, even returning so-called "suppressing fire" is now considered tactically acceptable until additional backup arrives. The idea now is to go in and engage the shooter, even if you're just one officer on the scene.

This is contradictory to previous training, and it goes against most cops' safety rules which include, "always know what is BEYOND your target." But tacticians in law enforcement are apparently now figuring out that the opportunity cost of NOT shooting back is much greater than the relatively small risk of hitting an innocent victim when laying down suppressing fire.

It is therefore believed, I was told, that even concealed carry principals or other school staff can effectively lay down that "suppressing fire" even if they are not nailing the active shooter. Obviously, this does not mean firing blindly into a crowd, for example. Each tactical situation is unique and requires rapid assessment before pulling the trigger in any direction.

There is an excellent article on all this at PoliceOne.com, covering a hard-hitting presentation by Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman. Here's a particularly compelling excerpt from the article:

The challenge for law enforcement agencies and officers, then, is to overcome not only the attacks taking place in schools, but to first overcome the denial in the minds of mayors, city councils, school administrators, and parents. Grossman said that agencies and officers, although facing an uphill slog against the denial of the general public, must diligently work toward increasing understanding among the sheep that the wolves are coming for their children. Police officers must train and drill with teachers, not only so responding officers are intimately familiar with the facilities, but so that teachers know what they can do in the event of an attack.

"Come with me to the library at Columbine High School," Grossman said. "The teacher in the library at Columbine High School spent her professional lifetime preparing for a fire, and we can all agree if there had been a fire in that library, that teacher would have instinctively, reflexively known what to do.

"But the thing most likely to kill her kids -- the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill her kids, the teacher didn't have a clue what to do. She should have put those kids in the librarian's office but she didn't know that. So she did the worst thing possible -- she tried to secure her kids in an un-securable location. She told the kids to hide in the library -- a library that has plate glass windows for walls. It's an aquarium, it's a fish bowl. She told the kids to hide in a fishbowl. What did those killers see? They saw targets. They saw fish in a fish bowl."

Grossman said that if the school administrators at Columbine had spent a fraction of the money they'd spent preparing for fire doing lockdown drills and talking with local law enforcers about the violent dangers they face, the outcome that day may have been different.

Rhetorically he asked the assembled cops, "If somebody had spent five minutes telling that teacher what to do, do you think lives would have been saved at Columbine?"

Conclusion: Civil War? All my contact in law enforcement are in Southern U.S. states. Opinions may be very different in Northern or Eastern cities such as Chicago, New York or New Jersey.

Nevertheless, even if opinions are different in other cities and states, it is clear to me that law enforcement in Southern states will NOT comply with gun confiscation directives issued by Obama. Obama simply does not have the moral authority -- nor the law enforcement support -- to pull off such an action. While his political supporters claim he has a "mandate" across America, that's far from the truth. Obama is widely despised across states like Texas, Florida, Arizona and nearly all of rural America. He only enjoys support in the cities, and primarily in the inner cities.

Also, throughout law enforcement it is widely known that Obama staged Operation Fast & Furious and then got caught. The fact that at least one murder of a U.S. border patrol agent was caused by one of these weapons has made U.S. law enforcement officers realize that the Obama administration is, in many ways, actively working against their interests and even compromising their safety.

The question was raised to me: If Obama is against gun violence, why did he allow thousands of guns to "walk" into the hands of Mexican drug gangs, knowing they would be turned against U.S. law enforcement officers? (Don't hold your breath waiting for Obama to shed a tear for Brian Terry...)

Conclusion? If Obama were to announce a nationwide gun confiscation order, it might set off a civil war, pitting armed gun owners, cops, veterans and preppers against the completely disarmed, trendy, undisciplined anti-gun inner-city liberals. Gee, I wonder who would win that war?

Is this all a ploy to open the door for UN troops on the streets in America? Finally, it's worth considering that civil war may be exactly what Obama wants to cause. It would rip America apart, making way for United Nations troops to invade and seize control, claiming "humanitarian" justification. This could be precisely the action needed to unleash blue helmets across America and push for nationwide disarmament and military occupation.

In recognizing this, I'm about to re-read Patriots by James Wesley Rawles. You should too. And check out his website while you're at it: www.SurvivalBlog.com

For the record, Natural News supports cops, veterans and Sheriffs in the fight to defend the U.S. Constitution, its Bill of Rights, and real freedom in America. We will not stand idly by and let a group of political thugs and bullies take away our sacred right to self defense.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 12/19/2012 9:01:44 PM PST by djf
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To: djf
"Door-to-door confiscation by men and women in blue [i.e. city cops] would be a suicide mission."

QED.

2 posted on 12/19/2012 9:05:50 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: djf
"I was told by more than one person in this group that any effort by Obama to invoke gun confiscation could lead America to civil war if any real effort were made to enforce it. "

(nothing to add)

3 posted on 12/19/2012 9:09:35 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

I’ve been saying that all along.

How many “confiscation” missions could your average troop/whatever carry out before he was a statistic?

Three? Four?
Not very good odds.

Same thing with looters and zombies.

Casualties amongst those type would be incredibly high, the easiest thing at first is to kill each other for what little is left.


4 posted on 12/19/2012 9:10:15 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: djf

Once won gets to be an old fart, the mission becomes clear....


5 posted on 12/19/2012 9:13:12 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

And I would bet you wouldn’t find many to come here under a blue helmet.


6 posted on 12/19/2012 9:13:50 PM PST by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: djf

Don’t forget that IEDs may become the new Welcome Mat.


7 posted on 12/19/2012 9:14:59 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: djf
One of the police detectives explained another reason for saying no: "There is no love for gun confiscation in law enforcement. We're all gun owners and most of us grew up with guns, hunting, target shooting or just collecting.

I don't think this quote especially applies to Denver or Aurora PD, and certainly not to Los Angeles, Baltimore, Chicago, New York City, Boston, or any other liberal big city police force.

Denver PD conducted a violent arrest of a symbolic, peaceful protestor, an image I will never forget nor forgive. It would have been enough for them to have one officer put his hand on the man's shoulder and announce, "I place you under arrest." But no, a bunch of officers jumped him, tackled him and, with knees to the neck and back, and in what might even have been a choke hold, put handcuffs in the most violent way possible. Despicable and unforgivable. The 98% who give the other 2% a bad name.

8 posted on 12/19/2012 9:16:56 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Paladin2

What P’s me off the most about this whole situation is the left has to admit one thing:

Ether the guy was loony as bat-shit or he was normal.

If they conclude he was normal, or anything near normal, then what they are really saying is the ALL normal, responsible, upright gun owners might do the same thing.

That means they want to lump maybe half or more middle class America in with the whackos.


9 posted on 12/19/2012 9:20:46 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: djf

One does not need to ‘take’ your guns. The Gov’t simply creates so many laws, that joe will eventually brake said law and will become a ‘criminal’ who will be denied their right to carry such a gun.


10 posted on 12/19/2012 9:21:11 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: djf
There is a whole lot of trouble going around.

The outcome is not going to be good.

11 posted on 12/19/2012 9:23:34 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Theoria

In retrospect, I think few gun owners would say that lady was anywheres near responsible in her ownership/handling/storage of her weapons, especially considering she had a KNOWN very troubled person living in her house.

She, and those innocent victims, paid the ultimate pride.


12 posted on 12/19/2012 9:25:50 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: djf

There in fact aren’t many units in police or military that can do the type of sweeps that would be required under gun confiscation. Most are trained for dynamic entry and most of the rest for field engagement. Problem is that once the word gets out they are going house to house, you won’t just be dealing with dynamic entry, you will have field engagement in an urban setting, arguably the most difficult of all engagements.

To imagine the difficulty of that, Walmart, the biggest non-govt employer in the U.S., has about 800K employees in the CONUS. IF, and it’s a big if, we could muster that level of troops for sweeps, imagine your local Walmart employees armed and trained to go thru the community and confiscate guns? Do you REALLY think that few people could accomplish such a task?

There is the ‘Mogadishu Line’ where you are so outnumbered on so many sides that no matter how good you are, you are just overwhelmed. That is what we’d have in a gun confiscation scenario. Keep in mind that many resisting gun confiscation would also have significant military combat experience from a number of different wars.


13 posted on 12/19/2012 9:25:50 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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To: djf

Please, Lord, let Hussein try to take our guns away. Please.


14 posted on 12/19/2012 9:28:23 PM PST by 867V309
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To: coloradan

When did Denver pd violently take down a peaceful protester? What are the details?


15 posted on 12/19/2012 9:30:05 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: djf
djf said: How many “confiscation” missions could your average troop/whatever carry out before he was a statistic?"

I guess the assumption is that the typical gun owner will just hunker down in his own home and wait for the confiscators to arrive in the middle of some night.

Doesn't sound like a good plan to me. If I hadn't lost all of my guns in an unfortunate boating accident, I would just turn them all in and avoid all the trouble.

16 posted on 12/19/2012 9:30:50 PM PST by William Tell
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To: djf

A gun is merely a tool. A very effective tool. Her son could simply have stabbed her, etc. The fault belongs to her son, not to her.


17 posted on 12/19/2012 9:31:07 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: djf

In Printz v. United States, (June 27, 1997), Judge Scalia for the Court stated:

...”Finally, and most conclusively in the present litigation, we turn to the prior jurisprudence of this Court. Federal commandeering of state governments is such a novel phenomenon that this Court’s first experience with it did not occur until the 1970’s, when the Environmental Protection Agency promulgated regulations requiring States to prescribe auto emissions testing, monitoring and retrofit programs, and to designate preferential bus and carpool lanes. The Courts of Appeals for the Fourth and Ninth Circuits invalidated the regulations on statutory grounds in order to avoid what they perceived to be grave constitutional issues, see Maryland v. EPA, 530 F. 2d 215, 226 (CA4 1975); Brown v. EPA, 521 F. 2d 827, 838–842 (CA9 1975); and the District of Columbia Circuit invalidated the regulations on both constitutional and statutory grounds, see District of Columbia v. Train, 521 F. 2d 971, 994 (CADC 1975). After we granted certiorari to review the statutory and constitutional validity of the regulations, the Government declined even to defend them, and instead rescinded some and conceded the invalidity of those that remained, leading us to vacate the opinions below and remand for consideration of mootness. EPA v. Brown, 431 U. S. 99 (1977).

“Although we had no occasion to pass upon the subject in Brown, later opinions of ours have made clear that the Federal Government may not compel the States to implement, by legislation or executive action, federal regulatory programs. In Hodel v. Virginia Surface Mining & Reclamation Assn., Inc. 452 U. S. 264 (1981), and FERC v. Mississippi, 456 U. S. 742 (1982), we sustained statutes against constitutional challenge only after assuring ourselves that they did not require the States to enforce federal law. In Hodel we cited the lower court cases in EPA v. Brown, supra, but concluded that the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act did not present the problem they raised because it merely made compliance with federal standards a precondition to continued state regulation in an otherwise pre-empted field, Hodel, supra, at 288. In FERC, we construed the most troubling provisions of the Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act of 1978, to contain only the ‘command’ that state agencies ‘consider’ federal standards, and again only as a precondition to continued state regulation of an otherwise pre-empted field. 456 U. S., at 764–765. We warned that ‘this Court never has sanctioned explicitly a federal command to the States to promulgate and enforce laws and regulations,’ id., at 761–762.

“When we were at last confronted squarely with a federal statute that unambiguously required the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program, our decision should have come as no surprise. At issue in New York v. United States, 505 U. S. 144 (1992), were the so-called ‘take title’ provisions of the Low-Level Radioactive Waste Policy Amendments Act of 1985, which required States either to enact legislation providing for the disposal of radioactive waste generated within their borders, or to take title to, and possession of the waste—effectively requiring the States either to legislate pursuant to Congress’s directions, or to implement an administrative solution. Id., at 175–176. We concluded that Congress could constitutionally require the States to do neither. Id., at 176. ‘The Federal Government,’ we held, ‘may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program.’ Id., at 188.

“The Government contends that New York is distinguishable on the following ground: unlike the ‘take title’ provisions invalidated there, the background-check provision of the Brady Act does not require state legislative or executive officials to make policy, but instead issues a final directive to state CLEOs. It is permissible, the Government asserts, for Congress to command state or local officials to assist in the implementation of federal law so long as ‘Congress itself devises a clear legislative solution that regulates private conduct’ and requires state or local officers to provide only ‘limited, non-policymaking help in enforcing that law.’ ‘[T]he constitutional line is crossed only when Congress compels the States to make law in their sovereign capacities.’ Brief for United States 16.

“The Government’s distinction between ‘making’ law and merely ‘enforcing’ it, between ‘policymaking’ and mere ‘implementation,’ is an interesting one. It is perhaps not meant to be the same as, but it is surely reminiscent of, the line that separates proper congressional conferral of Executive power from unconstitutional delegation of legislative authority for federal separation-of-powers purposes. See A. L. A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U. S. 495, 530 (1935); Panama Refining Co. v. Ryan, 293 U. S. 388, 428–429 (1935)”....”Even assuming, moreover, that the Brady Act leaves no ‘policymaking’ discretion with the States, we fail to see how that improves rather than worsens the intrusion upon state sovereignty. Preservation of the States as independent and autonomous political entities is arguably less undermined by requiring them to make policy in certain fields than (as Judge Sneed aptly described it over two decades ago) by ‘reduc[ing] [them] to puppets of a ventriloquist Congress,’ Brown v. EPA, 521 F. 2d, at 839. It is an essential attribute of the States’ retained sovereignty that they remain independent and autonomous within their proper sphere of authority. See Texas v. White, 7 Wall, at 725. It is no more compatible with this independence and autonomy that their officers be ‘dragooned’ (as Judge Fernandez put it in his dissent below, 66 F. 3d, at 1035) into administering federal law, than it would be compatible with the independence and autonomy of the United States that its officers be impressed into service for the execution of state laws.”


18 posted on 12/19/2012 9:31:56 PM PST by marsh2
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To: djf
Why would Obama order house to house searches when he could just order the arrest in public of the most important targets and hold them indefinitely until they instruct their families to bring the guns down to the station? Or take the wife and same deal? Or take the kids and same deal?

I'll bet ya won't see any of these "good guy" cops refusing those arrest warrants or springing targeted citizens taken on the street by surprise.

Nah, Hitler got excellent cooperation from the police and most all of the military, as did the Soviet Communists when they superseded the Nazi command structure.

All the cops had to say in their defense was "I vas onlik folloink orders".

19 posted on 12/19/2012 9:38:00 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

So you believe the government would incarcerate millions of people?

Including spouses and children of current government workers, various current and past LE officials, veterans, military, even Congress itself?

I don’t think so.

But anything is possible these days. Anything.
The lunatics are running the asylum!


20 posted on 12/19/2012 9:44:09 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: coloradan

Yep. Believe what they do, not what they say.


21 posted on 12/19/2012 9:46:27 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Navy Patriot
Why would Obama order house to house searches when he could just order the arrest in public of the most important targets and hold them indefinitely until they instruct their families to bring the guns down to the station? Or take the wife and same deal? Or take the kids and same deal?

No offense, FRiend, but are you smokin'dope?
22 posted on 12/19/2012 9:50:08 PM PST by 867V309
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To: djf
So you believe the government would incarcerate millions of people?

The point is that they don't need to incarcerate millions, just enough examples.

The lefties and the press will allow people with "arsenals" to be arrested, look at how they demonize gun collectors. Anonymous informants can't be wrong,...or plants. Observe the "wrong address" drug raids, and how no "good guy" cops speak up mentioning "we were wrong", nah, the occupant was breaking some "reasonable" law. Remember ATF raided Waco with the press present, because UPS delivered an inert joke hand grenade.

Including spouses and children of current government workers, various current and past LE officials, veterans, military, even Congress itself?

You seem to forget the Arkancide list from the Clinton years. Were women, children and girlfriends off limits?

I don’t think so.

Care to rethink?

23 posted on 12/19/2012 10:13:38 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: 867V309

See #23.


24 posted on 12/19/2012 10:19:38 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

A long time ago, a bunch of troops were ordered to search for and confiscate weapons.

They were met at a bridge by a group of rag-tag local folks who were determined to not let them do it.

The troops were devastated.

It was Old North Bridge, near Concord, Massachusetts.

The first battle.

The first shots of the first revolutionary war.


25 posted on 12/19/2012 10:33:12 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: Navy Patriot
The point is that they don't need to incarcerate millions, just enough examples.

I don't think you have thought this through. "JUST ENOUGH EXAMPLES"? Say 500,000 examples? Ten thousand per state? That's conservatively only ONE PERCENT of US gunowners. 500,000 accused felons, each one claiming his Constitutional right to bear arms and supported with a flood of money by the NRA, numerous other conservative groups, and fine folks like you and I, would create complete federal judicial gridlock. Things go down-hill from there...
26 posted on 12/19/2012 10:35:01 PM PST by 867V309
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To: djf

Even if a cop or soldier took guns successfully from the first few homes, a phone call down the street would get him killed and the guns returned to the rightful owner. No cop or soldier makes enough to know he’s going to die...


27 posted on 12/19/2012 10:35:55 PM PST by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked..." - BHO)
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To: djf
If Obozo and his minions exercise the confiscation option, they're waiting for a complacent population to standby and wait to be raided. Ah, no. Remember that this is not a zero sum game where the government thugs (a very small population when compared to the country as a whole) gets to pick and choose its targets that are passive. On the contrary, the victims will become predators and actively hunt the raiders, This is a guerrilla war and the gun owners will swim in the sea of the people at large.

Government attempts to intimidate the population with shows and demonstrations of force will be applied blindly and indiscriminately. That's bad because innocents will be punished along with everyone else. The government goons will succeed in creating more enemies than friends. Liberals and Leftists will be targeted because this is now a civil war. It will not be pretty and there's no guarantee that Obama’s thugs will prevail.

28 posted on 12/19/2012 10:57:20 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: 867V309
Well I don't think you've thought this through.

These gun confiscation orders will come down AFTER possession has been outlawed by the Congress and signed by the President, and that could easily happen if the GOP loses the house.

Additionally, SCOTUS is looking at overturning the past individual right in favor of the left's collective right for the military to have your gun. If Roberts backstabs like Obamacare, 2A for the people is entirely gone.

Those 500,000 would already be felons for NOT turning in their guns, they'll get no help from anybody.

Even if Congress outlaws just one model of firearm as an "assault weapon", the first arrest will go to court and run the risk of SCOTUS eventually overturning the individual right, in which case all guns are by government permission and whim. When the left has the power to deny permission on whatever offends them what happens?

29 posted on 12/19/2012 11:13:40 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: djf

Civilians should be allowed to have whatever weapons law enforcement is allowed to have, for the exact same reasons law enforcement has them.

Either the world is dangerous, and people can arm themselves as they see fit, or it is safe and we can have law enforcement unilaterally disarm “because nobody needs a weapon like a........”

This is the fundamental flaw in the liberal gun grabbing argument.

In todays environment police are arming themselves with every MORE potent weapons, including sniper rifles, automatic weapons along with armored vehicles.

Why should law-abiding citizens not be allowed the same tools as the police?


30 posted on 12/19/2012 11:15:24 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Navy Patriot

Couldn’t get through, but I tried.

Merry Christmas, Friend!


31 posted on 12/19/2012 11:18:25 PM PST by 867V309
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To: 867V309
The citizens of the Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, Cuba all were sure their national army and police would not turn their guns on the good citizens.

All were wrong, all were disarmed and three imprisoned and exterminated over 150 million good peaceful citizens.

And we gun owners don't have the good press that those citizens had.

Merry Christmas to you.

32 posted on 12/19/2012 11:30:28 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: djf
It's becomeing obvious that designating a 'gun free zone' is an open invitation to violence. It's resulting in the oppposite way that it was intended. It tells the assailant that he will face no opposition, that he's clear to commit any atrocity.
33 posted on 12/19/2012 11:34:47 PM PST by ArmyTeach ( Videteco eos prius (See 'em first) Sculpin 191)
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To: djf

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - The Gulag Archipelago 


34 posted on 12/19/2012 11:44:58 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: Eagles6

XLENT QUOTE!

Been probably 20 years since I read that. Should read it again.


35 posted on 12/19/2012 11:49:43 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: djf

He made me pull my head out of my nether regions 30 yrs ago. Truly a great man.


36 posted on 12/20/2012 12:04:05 AM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: djf

bump


37 posted on 12/20/2012 12:33:30 AM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: djf

Bullshit..... LEO....ALL LEO have been enforcing blatantly unconstituonal
laws and regulations for decades. When they are offered the choice of
enforcing any new anti 2A laws and unemployment they will do what they
have always done....tell their massa’s who sign their paychecks “yessa bossman, right away”.


38 posted on 12/20/2012 1:36:58 AM PST by nvscanman
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To: wastoute

I’d have NO problem taking out anyone with a blue helmet who came for my guns.
F the u.n.


39 posted on 12/20/2012 3:08:29 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: djf

98% of LEO’s will do what they’re told and not even complain much. If you’re relying on cops to protect you or your rights, you’re naive. Besides, direct confiscation is unnecessary. A $10,000/yr possession tax enforced by the IRS with compounded penalties would scare 90% of the guns out the hands of Americans. We’ve seen from obamacare that the SCOTUS will stomach any sort of tax.


40 posted on 12/20/2012 3:14:09 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: djf
Re: this one:
#2) If such an order is given, will you or fellow members of your organization enforce it against the citizens? (And if so, how?)

I can foresee something like this being attempted. However, I do not think any local LEOs would be tasked with this.
IMO it would be non-local uniformed personnel of some Gov't agency tasked with this. If it happens, this is how, IMO, it will be staffed.

41 posted on 12/20/2012 4:30:55 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum -- "The Taliban is inside the building")
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To: muir_redwoods
A right cannot be taxed.

Murdock Vs. Pa, 319 US 105

To try to tax the possession of firearms would be the quintessential description of what the Founders meant when they said "shall not be infringed!!"
42 posted on 12/20/2012 4:54:18 AM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: djf
So, they wouldn't confiscate guns only because it would be too dangerous or because they don't like the guy in the White House. Why am I not comforted by that?

"People that spend $500 on a nice handgun are almost never the problem when it comes to violent crime. It's the ones who pick up a junk gun for $50 on the street."

"Levying new taxes on all handguns like the tax stamps on class three weapons" would likely prevent new guns from being purchased by most violent criminals

How stupid is this guy? 'The expensive guns bought legally aren't the problem, so let's make the guns bought legally more expensive.'

43 posted on 12/20/2012 5:15:23 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: djf

Target ranges pay non-real estate property taxes for plant and equipment which includes the rental firearms. The precedent is there and in a John Roberts court, anything can be taxed, even your health.


44 posted on 12/20/2012 5:43:17 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: djf

Anyone who thinks cops, especially in the cities will not follow whatever orders they’ve been handed from above is delusional, and hasn’t been paying adequate attention.


45 posted on 12/20/2012 6:57:00 AM PST by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: djf
In retrospect, I think few gun owners would say that lady was anywheres near responsible in her ownership/handling/storage of her weapons, especially considering she had a KNOWN very troubled person living in her house. I'm not convinced. I have not read or heard about her storage. Did she have loaded firearms in every corner of the home, like many of my relatives do? That would have been irresponsible with her troubled son. Did she have her firearms in a locked gun safe, with the key someplace that she could reasonably consider secure? If he took the key by force, it's hard to blame her for failing to fully prepare for that possibility.
46 posted on 12/20/2012 9:19:50 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: The_Media_never_lie

http://victimsoflaw.net/Stanley.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/684007/posts


47 posted on 12/20/2012 6:20:01 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: djf

“In retrospect, I think few gun owners would say that lady was anywheres near responsible in her ownership/handling/storage of her weapons, especially considering she had a KNOWN very troubled person living in her house.”

Fair enough. One of the NRA rules for gun storage is not to store them where unauthorized people can get to them. He should have been an unauthorized person.

OTOH, putting them into an impregnable fortress is not necessarily cost effective for many gun owners. Less than impregnable means a determined, but unauthorized, person can get to them. I don’t know what her situation was.


48 posted on 01/04/2013 2:32:19 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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