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Talk about secession all you like, but there isn't going to be a Civil War.
Oct 7th, 2012 | vanity

Posted on 11/07/2012 10:52:38 AM PST by Joseph Harrolds

I'm seeing a lot of comments today along the lines of, " The red states should consider secession", and "Civil War 2 is coming".

To those saying such things: I can only hope that you're self-aware enough to realize that you're simply venting. There isn't the slightest chance that the US is going to break up in the next 4 years because of the re-election of Obama.

On the off-chance I'm wrong, please contact me in advance of your attack on Fort Sumter.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; History; Society; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: cw2; secession
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1 posted on 11/07/2012 10:52:47 AM PST by Joseph Harrolds
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Bunch of yankees thought the same thing 150 years or so ago.

So thanks ever so much for your learned and timely opinion.


2 posted on 11/07/2012 10:56:59 AM PST by humblegunner
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To: Joseph Harrolds

What is the purpose of this stupid vanity?


3 posted on 11/07/2012 10:58:43 AM PST by steel_resolve (Ships With Holes Will Sink And I Will Swim)
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To: Joseph Harrolds
More like a pogrom.
4 posted on 11/07/2012 10:59:18 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

The more that power is centralized, the more freedom is diminished. As simple as that.


5 posted on 11/07/2012 11:00:01 AM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

I agree- No civil war coming, just more people being anti-social.


6 posted on 11/07/2012 11:00:12 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

We won’t have to attack Fort Sumter this time....its ours.....


7 posted on 11/07/2012 11:01:04 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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To: steel_resolve
What is the purpose of this stupid vanity?

There people are posting some very silly things about the absurd notion that there's going to be a civil war because of the re-election of President Obama. I'm simply pointing out that their comments are just that.

8 posted on 11/07/2012 11:01:43 AM PST by Joseph Harrolds (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss. --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

It’s not the ones that talk (vent) about it that you have to worry about. It’s the ones you never hear a peep from and there are literally millions of those. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, but NOTHING would surprise me at this point in history.


9 posted on 11/07/2012 11:01:53 AM PST by lgjhn23
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To: Joseph Harrolds
Talk about secession all you like, but there isn't going to be a Civil War.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You seem to think that a secession and a Civil War are or will be one and the same.

There will be no secession. But there will be a CWII. It will begin when the EBT's stop working.

Read This:

When The Music Stops – How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence
Western Rifle Shooters Association ^ | September 4, 2012 | Matt Bracken
 

Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:37:03 AM by Travis McGee

10 posted on 11/07/2012 11:02:04 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

I’m seeing a lot of comments today along the lines of “you’re just venting.”

I hope those saying that realize they are showing themselves as elitist holier than thou jerks....


11 posted on 11/07/2012 11:02:16 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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To: Joseph Harrolds

“To those saying such things: I can only hope that you’re self-aware enough to realize that you’re simply venting. There isn’t the slightest chance that the US is going to break up in the next 4 years because of the re-election of Obama.”

You mean like there was “no chance” that Scotland would ever want to leave the U.K?

They are likely to vote to do just that next year.

Catalonia in Spain is about to jump ship. Venice has a high likelihood of leaving Italy.

So what if states withdraw? How is that going to hurt anyone? And if they do it through peaceful majority vote then who cares!


12 posted on 11/07/2012 11:03:46 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: Joseph Harrolds
I wouldn't say that the talk of secession is because of the re-election of Obama, because that gives him far too much credit.

However, what the elections going back to 1988 have told me is that there are two diametrically opposed viewpoints in this country, that are not likely to change -- particularly in the solid blue Northeast, Solid blue West Coast, and solid Red South.

It's hard to imagine an Executive Branch that's capable of responding equally to two different states -- one voting 65-35 against, and one voting 65-35 for. There are two different worlds.

13 posted on 11/07/2012 11:04:38 AM PST by cincinnati65
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To: Joseph Harrolds

If there ever is another civil war, this northener will be defecting to the south to fight on their side.


14 posted on 11/07/2012 11:04:38 AM PST by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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I think a more likely scenario (not LIKELY...just MORE likely...which is different...still it would be a slim chance) would be the GOP moves left, and the Dems STAY left...and then the West and Southern states develop some sort of a cobbled together 3rd conservative party.

Sort of a flipping of the UK Labor, Tories, Liberals where the Dems are Labor, the GOP Tories and the new conservative party is sort of like the liberals.

Of course, it wouldn’t really do much good, but I can see the Dems staying so far left, and the GOP moving left to pick up the Fiscal conservatives who are socially liberal, and then the tea party types create a 3rd party based in the South and West.

It would take some kind of wedge issue where people were so ticked off they left no matter the consequences on national elections.

Again...very unlikely, but not impossible going forward.


15 posted on 11/07/2012 11:05:16 AM PST by Crimson Elephant
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To: Joseph Harrolds

A lot of your posts often say something like...”If the courts or if the Federal government passes it, opposition will be moot despite local or state opposition”...like some of your posts conserning Gay marriage.

Children are the apples in the eyes of many conservatives, once issues such as gay rights really begin to be forced on such little ones in this nation in certain locations of the country, you really will see CW2!


16 posted on 11/07/2012 11:06:34 AM PST by mdmathis6 ("Barry" Xmas to all and have a rapaciously taxable New Year!)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

A Civil War is counter-productive. All we need to do is to have the producers decide to produce less—a lot less, to the extent that we are in near poverty. (Remember that people at the poverty line today have a higher standard of living than a middle class family did in 1976. We can learn to live like its 1976 again.) When 90% of the people are off the tax rolls and 85% are on food stamps, the government will stop paying the entitlements and the blacks, hispanics, and single moms will attack DC on their own. Even if the government nationalizes everything and orders us back to work, we work like a good Soviet Comrade.


17 posted on 11/07/2012 11:06:53 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

A few years back, Texas was toying with the idea.. I recall that there was a hitch in the Texas Constitution that allowed it, but something stopped it.. I’m not sure what happened but it didn’t really get any further than some major meetings around the State..

I’ll check with my son, a filmmaker, working on that Secession story covering it as a Documentary.. I’ll get back..


18 posted on 11/07/2012 11:07:15 AM PST by carlo3b (Less Government, more Fiber..)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

wouldn’t it be a lot less bloody to just go out cheating in elections like they do?


19 posted on 11/07/2012 11:07:17 AM PST by MNDude
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To: Joseph Harrolds

FU!!!


20 posted on 11/07/2012 11:07:45 AM PST by ohioman
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To: Joseph Harrolds
Sure, here how it works.

The US Constitution is the contract that binds the states. Once it is signigicantly breached, the Governers of several states will band together and form a new federation. Think Alaska to the SE Atlantic Coast...possibly picking Canadian provinces.

The US Military is also on oath to defend the Constitution of the Unites States from enemies foreign and domestic. There is a hard limit to the progressive push, and once it is exceeded the Military will likely split between Oath Keepers and Obama loyalists.

It will get messy as the states attempt to secure national military assests in their states (NORAD, etc).

But, like with 1776...it takes an extrodinary bit of providence/timing to get the “ducks in a row”.

So, just how much is getting out of $216K(and rising) in debt worth to you?

Then there is “defacto” breakup, when the dollar is destroyed and regional currancies crop up.

21 posted on 11/07/2012 11:07:45 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Who the heck are you and why do you think your opinion is of any value?


22 posted on 11/07/2012 11:08:04 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Joseph Harrolds
This is really such a narrow minded perspective that its just plain stupid on its face.

When the economic fabric of this country meltsndown and indeed it will you wont have to have an officially proclaimed civil war.

It will be urban warfare simply going out to try to bring home some food for your family. Simply watch what already started up when people could find food and gas in the wake of Sandy.

People will be at war for necessities because our economic system will be melted by Socialist policies of the Obama surrogates.

23 posted on 11/07/2012 11:09:18 AM PST by R0CK3T
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To: Joseph Harrolds

You just smoked your first legal bone, didn’t ya?


24 posted on 11/07/2012 11:09:57 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: VanDeKoik
So what if states withdraw? How is that going to hurt anyone? And if they do it through peaceful majority vote then who cares!

I'm not making a judgement as to the morality or advisability of such a thing, nor of its likelihood 50 or 100 years from now. I'm just pointing at that it's not about to happen in the next four years.

If I'm wrong, feel free to bookmark this post; if a state leaves the union by 2016, please reply with a cutting remark about my lack of political acumen.

25 posted on 11/07/2012 11:09:57 AM PST by Joseph Harrolds (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss. --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

No secession? No civil war? Cool. I’m just gonna ask my boss for a demotion. Get me outta the tax bracket that’s about to get reamed. If I can’t get out of that, I’m going John Galt.


26 posted on 11/07/2012 11:10:24 AM PST by Durbin
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To: ohioman
FU!!!

Thank you for your calm, reasoned, and above all civil reply. :-)

27 posted on 11/07/2012 11:13:24 AM PST by Joseph Harrolds (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss. --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Joseph Harrolds
Illinois sooner or later will be unable to pay its obligation.

http://www.statebudgetcrisis.org/wpcms/wp-content/images/2012-10-12-Illinois-Report-Final-2.pdf

Ponder Lincoln's speech:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/house.htm

Consider the insights of Machiavelli

Men sooner forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony.

We are in deep trouble

28 posted on 11/07/2012 11:13:55 AM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: humblegunner

If you do. Don’t attack first. Castro was smart enough to not attack Gitmo after the 1959 revolution Attacking fort Sumter and the supply shiip was a dumbass move.

I agree with “when in the course of human events” thing. But don’t tempt fate by attacking first


29 posted on 11/07/2012 11:16:03 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: humblegunner

If you do. Don’t attack first. Castro was smart enough to not attack Gitmo after the 1959 revolution Attacking fort Sumter and the supply shiip was a dumbass move.

I agree with “when in the course of human events” thing. But don’t tempt fate by attacking first


30 posted on 11/07/2012 11:16:51 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Bryanw92

“All we need to do is to have the producers decide to produce less—a lot less, to the extent that we are in near poverty.”

That has already begun. This is how you bring down liberalism. My uncle got started bright and early this am. He is closing the doors of his company in June.


31 posted on 11/07/2012 11:17:40 AM PST by 1035rep
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Making the safe bet and proclaiming genius or acumen is neither becoming nor impressive. Then again, you would have done the same thing ahead of every great discovery or every great movement in the history of man.

One day after? I think a little outside the box venting is healthy, and I think I have the ability to process it in the proper spirit. Proudly making encampment deep deep inside the box is the refuge of the left brained type B bureaucrat.


32 posted on 11/07/2012 11:18:28 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Remember Doris Day? ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdhAfMor9BM


33 posted on 11/07/2012 11:19:03 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: All

I tend to agree with the original poster. Quite often on FreeRepublic there is pseudo brinksmanship that gets played that centers around the thought that we are just a step away from “The Next American Revolution”. Fact of the matter is we are not that close to a revolution and no state or groups of states are anywhere close to seceding from the country.

The people, even those of us who are more conservative, have shown themselves willing to put with quite a lot of crap with no actual threat of sweeping change. While we see the inklings of a party willing to persecute those of us who are more conservative, we have not yet reached the point of day to day persecution that results in actual revolution. Fact is we are far from it, so any talk of the next American Revolution, civil war, secession, is less than worthless. If we talk in those terms, we have actually given up the fight to change things through the changing of minds, which ought not be willing to do.


34 posted on 11/07/2012 11:19:50 AM PST by WillVoteForFood
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To: VanDeKoik
Because if a majority of Texas voted to secede, I would still be an American. Abandoning my property to flee as a refugee, somehow just doesn't appeal to me.
35 posted on 11/07/2012 11:20:24 AM PST by Melas (u)
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To: Vaquero

We don’t need to attack at all, I don’t know where that idea comes from.

We have borders in Texas, we just close them.

We may need to defend, but who would we attack? Why?


36 posted on 11/07/2012 11:21:18 AM PST by humblegunner
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To: Responsibility2nd

One of my favorites is Patriots by John Wesley Rawles.


37 posted on 11/07/2012 11:22:16 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Another useless vanity. Too bad there isn’t a rule that you have to be a member here 5 years before vanity rights. Geez!!!!!!


38 posted on 11/07/2012 11:22:42 AM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: Durbin

“I’m just gonna ask my boss for a demotion. Get me outta the tax bracket that’s about to get reamed”

It’s easier to put the money in a deferred compensation plan. That’s what I am doing. You’ll have to pay the tax when you withdraw it but at least the Kenyan can give it away.


39 posted on 11/07/2012 11:23:19 AM PST by 1035rep
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To: 1035rep

Correction: at least the Kenyan (can’t) give it away.


40 posted on 11/07/2012 11:24:52 AM PST by 1035rep
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Problem is, the bad guys have a prohibitive advantage in firepower, plus air supremacy.


41 posted on 11/07/2012 11:26:51 AM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

There are ways to secede without seceding.

TV is off. No movies to see. No shopping is planned.

Removing myself from the culture. Paring down expenses. Planning a very simple, more meaningful Christmas.


42 posted on 11/07/2012 11:28:38 AM PST by carmody
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To: Joseph Harrolds

By the end of Obama’s 2nd term, we will have $20-25 TRILLION in debt, not including Social Security/Medicare obligations (approx $100 TRILLION). Tell me how we recover from this? Not possible...not enough wealth to cover what we owe. The US will collapse fiscally, just like Greece. It’s a done deal.

Look at what’s happening right this very moment in NY/NJ...not enough resources to take care of everyone with their hands out. Now extrapolate that over the entire country. Not a pretty picture, but it is an accurate preview of what IS COMING.

Tell me how this won’t devolve quickly into secessionism and ultimately civil unrest and yes violence? CWII will be fought along the same lines as CWI—slavery. Those of us value liberty, self reliance, and individualism are not going to stand by and be slaves to those who believe they are entitled to live off the fruits of the labor of others. The two beliefs simply cannot coexist.

I want to be optimistic and believe that we still have time to turn this around. Regardless of that, we ARE in for a great deal of pain. I don’t see how the US survives the entitlement class in its’ present form. Whatever the case, you are a fool if you don’t believe things can get really bad, and prepare accordingly.


43 posted on 11/07/2012 11:28:38 AM PST by rottndog (Be Prepared.....for what's coming AFTER America.)
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To: humblegunner

Lets see? Fort Hood? Name a base.

And that’s what happened in 1861

( off course fort hood was attacked from within by a loyal zer0bama supporter. But hey that was workplace violence. Sure it was)


44 posted on 11/07/2012 11:30:08 AM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

” The red states should consider secession”

If we took out all RED COUNTIES we would have more. Looking at an election map, county by county, it showed a huge nation with blue dots where the Dems control The West coast, Chicago,NYC, NJ, Fla coast line. Wall them “out” and we would still have most of the nation.


45 posted on 11/07/2012 11:30:35 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: steel_resolve; C. Edmund Wright; carlo3b; ohioman; freekitty; Puppage; catfish1957
Check out newbie's posting history.

He's been wetting himself with glee that pro-pot and homosexual marriage laws were passed.

Not right now. But soon.....

IBTZ

46 posted on 11/07/2012 11:36:34 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Go back to your hole, idiot.


47 posted on 11/07/2012 11:36:41 AM PST by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: All

I agree, the nation will survive this, in fact, my feeling is that within two years attention will begin to focus almost entirely on who to support as the candidate. Between now and then some general principles should be agreed upon. The next “Republican” candidate must also be a conservative and libertarian candidate. There is no point in running yet another centrist plan B candidate, this has now failed three times in five elections and only the superior political skills of the W team made that as low as three, could have been five.

Those million votes that the Libertarians drained off, and the stay-at-home Ron Paul loyalists, added up to defeat. Most “moderate” Republicans would vote for a pair of shoes rather than a liberal democrat, so it seems a better strategy to tack right, get all the votes available on that side, and give the voters a real choice.

Unless Obama changes the constitution, he won’t be running, and if it were Biden, he’s like Obama without charisma, a sure recipe to lose to a well-organized Republican. Hillary Clinton is well past her prime and would be equally vulnerable. Other possible candidates for the Democrats are not currently that prominent.

This four years may be tough, like a cultural civil war but likely to become a legislative standoff with Obama mainly posturing and doing most of his harm on the international front where the enemies of freedom can make substantial gains. Breaking up America will not help a quick restoration of international order after 2016.

I would think the focus should be on the 2016 election and the assumption that Obama will lose popularity making a conservative resurgence all the more likely. The political challenge is to sell this to Latinos and suburban women voters. There must be ways to do this, and self-interest is probably the path forward, what other point is there in conservative politics than to retain personal freedom against the insidious powers of the state?


48 posted on 11/07/2012 11:40:04 AM PST by Peter ODonnell (Obama: Just as I stilled the waters, I will bring peace and prosperity ... ruh-roh.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Wall them “out” and we would still have most of the nation.

And the good parts of it too: no blue dots....with the majority of the military bases the leftists didn’t want.


49 posted on 11/07/2012 11:41:04 AM PST by Adder (Oh crap! NOW what?)
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To: carmody

Same here. I’m Going Galt for the remainder of the marxists’ time in office.


50 posted on 11/07/2012 11:41:11 AM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 10/07/12)
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