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A Doctor's Thoughts on Antibiotics, Expiration Dates
Survival Blog ^ | 7/26/10 | Dr. Bones

Posted on 09/14/2012 4:31:38 PM PDT by Kartographer

As a recently-retired physician who is married to a nurse-midwife, my preparedness group looks to us as the post-TEOTWAWKI hospital and medical staff. Medical progress has been exponential and even just the last decade of scientific breakthroughs can equal a century of improvement in medical treatments, surgical techniques and pharmaceuticals. However, in the years (months?) ahead, the crumbling of the infrastructure and devolution of society in general will very likely throw us back to a medical system that existed in the 19th Century.

Let’s take an example: When the U.S. was a young nation, the average woman could expect to be pregnant 10-12 times during her reproductive lifetime (no reliable means of birth control). One out of four women would not survive the pregnancy, either from issues relating to blood loss from miscarriage or childbirth or Infection (no antibiotics) following same. A myriad of other complications occurred which are treatable today but weren’t back then. I collect old medical books, and even relatively modern obstetric textbooks devoted entire chapters on how to crush a fetus’ skull in order to expedite its removal from a critically ill mother, with instruments that clearly had no other purpose. When childbirth was successful, she could expect perhaps 3-4 of her children to survive to become adults, on average, with many minor children succumbing to simple infections that had no known effective treatment at the time.

This is the grim reality that we, in modern times, will face when the inevitable happens and current medical technology and treatments are unavailable to us.

(Excerpt) Read more at survivalblog.com ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: antibiotics; expirationdate; medicine; medicinepreppers; medsexpirationdate; preparedness; preppers; survival
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The drugs are listed below and the bottles list the antibiotic as the sole ingredient. They are:

FISH-MOX (amoxicillin 250mg) FISH_MOX FORTE (amoxicillin 500mg) FISH-CILLIN (ampicillin 250mg) FISH-FLEX Keflex 250mg) FISH-FLEX FORTE (Keflex 500mg) FISH-ZOLE (metronidazole 250mg) FISH-PEN (penicillin 250mg) FISH-PEN FORTE (penicillin 500mg) FISH-CYCLINE (tetracycline 250mg)

1 posted on 09/14/2012 4:31:41 PM PDT by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!!

Antibiotics and medicine self life is one of the top ten question I get. Hopefully you will get some answers from this article.


2 posted on 09/14/2012 4:33:56 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Marcella
Would like your input on this.

/johnny

3 posted on 09/14/2012 4:38:51 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer

The FishMox products are of excellent quality and the price is right.


4 posted on 09/14/2012 4:42:21 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Kartographer

Thanks.

You can also buy bulk tetracycline at farm supply stores, generally labelled Agri-mycin or Terra-mycin.

Farms supply stores usually have aqueous penicillin for injection, and something you can’t get at Wally World.

Anti-tetanus injectible anti-toxin.


5 posted on 09/14/2012 4:42:43 PM PDT by djf (Political Science: Conservatives = govern-ment. Liberals = givin-me-it.)
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To: Kartographer

Great read! Thank you Kart.


6 posted on 09/14/2012 4:46:24 PM PDT by Casie
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To: Kartographer
“NOTE: It should be emphasized that FISH-CYCLINE [and other tetracycline antibiotics of various names] can become toxic after its expiration date, unlike most of the other medications listed.”

Does this apply to other, “Cyclines”? ie, Doxycycline

Does anyone have a rule of thumb guide to when/which different antibiotics are preferred?

Has anyone bought these outside of the US and brought them in?

7 posted on 09/14/2012 4:46:52 PM PDT by outofsalt ("If History teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything")
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To: Lurker

Buddy of mine talked to a vet and asked about the quality.

Vet said the quality is equal to or superior to human antibiotics.

If some farmer loses a herd of prize steer because of bunk antibiotics, the lawyers would be lined up around the block to take the case, potentially we’re talking millions of dollars, especially if it’s breed stock.

And the manufacturers can’t afford any contamination that might be passed on to human consumers, so they keep an eagle eye out for that...


8 posted on 09/14/2012 4:47:51 PM PDT by djf (Political Science: Conservatives = govern-ment. Liberals = givin-me-it.)
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To: Kartographer

Bingo. Funny how so few people think of these things. They will stock up on foodstuffs and other things, but often ignore medicines which could someday save their lives. As I have posted before, make sure you also have on hand children’s doses or make it your business to find out what the recommended dosages for children are and divide adult dosages accordingly.


9 posted on 09/14/2012 4:50:12 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and bo stinks)
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To: outofsalt

My understanding is that all ‘cyclines’ have a shelf life.

DOXYCYCLINE CAPSULES BP 100mg

Looks to be 4 years.

http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/23950/spc


10 posted on 09/14/2012 4:58:08 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
Good evening. I enjoy your post.

Regarding the antibiotics mentioned, can they be purchased without a prescription?

5.56mm

11 posted on 09/14/2012 4:59:53 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: JRandomFreeper

This “Dr. Bones” article is the one I used to make a decision about antibiotics some months ago. For me, I’m allergic for sure to penicillin, my whole body was covered with very itchy bumps and I was told never to take it again and it would be even worse. I had to make a paste of baking soda and water and paste myself every night and the paste would break off in the bed - what a mess the next morning to clean up.

My doctor gives me Cipro as that is not in the penicillin family. I finally found a fish place on the net that has Cipro, so I have it in two different strengths.

Then, went to a medical page that gave the right amount of Cipro to take for various problems and I printed that so I have the dosage to use. I’m not worried about its shelf life.

It is very important to read Dr. Bones one caveat about shelf life and POISON of this particular group of antibiotics:

“NOTE: It should be emphasized that FISH-CYCLINE [and other tetracycline antibiotics of various names] can become toxic after its expiration date, unlike most of the other medications listed. So consider acquiring the other ones listed, first.”

I think you don’t like antibiotics very much, so are you going to consider getting some?


12 posted on 09/14/2012 5:02:16 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: MestaMachine

I recommend the Physicians Desk Reference and www.galls.com for first responder first aid and trauma kits. Also, one should become certified in CPR/AED and then take the Wilderness First Aid course.


13 posted on 09/14/2012 5:02:40 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: M Kehoe

Can be brought through pet suppliers. Just google what you are looking for like:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=FISH-MOX+(amoxicillin+250mg)&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1986390718074039361&sa=X&ei=AsVTUOLMEo6NigKPt4GAAw&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAA


14 posted on 09/14/2012 5:03:33 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
Does keeping antibiotics in the freezer extend their shelf life?
15 posted on 09/14/2012 5:04:21 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Kartographer
My 'fish' had a case of Pnuemonia not two weeks ago and cleared it right up with a cycle of 'fish' Azythromycin...aka "Z-PACK". Worked great, and now my 'fish' isn't coughing anymore.

The pill idnetification marks on all of these tablets list them as human grade antibiotics.

The pill identifier, usage and dosage charts can all be found here.

Drugs.com

Almost all of this is available on Amazon.com, and it IS NOT expensive.

Be an ant, folks, not a grasshopper, winter is coming.

16 posted on 09/14/2012 5:06:13 PM PDT by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Marcella
Oh hell no, I'm not going to take anything other than oral analgesics, preferably ones I've brewed.

Just for clarification for folks that might want some input from medical professionals.

/johnny

17 posted on 09/14/2012 5:06:13 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: M Kehoe

“can they be purchased without a prescription?”

No prescription needed at fish places.


18 posted on 09/14/2012 5:07:28 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: Kartographer

Two more useful articles:

Part 1 — http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/10/...xpired_me.html

Part 2 — http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/10/..._medicati.html


19 posted on 09/14/2012 5:08:57 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: M Kehoe
Fancy meeting you here. I thought you just glowered at infections and they disappeared. ;)

Chest bump and a beer for my buddy. Testosterone isn't quite gone from the genome.

/johnny

20 posted on 09/14/2012 5:09:05 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I can find no reference to freezing antibiotics, so I don’t know I would say that refrigerating them should help extend self life.


21 posted on 09/14/2012 5:10:44 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

That’s where I keep mine.


22 posted on 09/14/2012 5:13:29 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Kartographer; Marcella; JRandomFreeper
Good evening, and thanks to both of you.

Johnny, I can only heal the infection if I can see it.

;^)

5.56mm

23 posted on 09/14/2012 5:13:59 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: JRandomFreeper

I got mine because they have Cipro as well as the others at:

http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/


24 posted on 09/14/2012 5:15:35 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: Kartographer; outofsalt

In some cases its been reported that its the binder that actually expires and not the medicine itself. Much of it depends on storage conditions but 2 years beyond the labeled shelf life for these medicines should be feasible.

I’ve read that the viability of tetracycline can be tested using titration but I don’t know how to do it.

I plan to rotate the older stuff and throw it away. Although I haven’t reached the first cycle yet.


25 posted on 09/14/2012 5:18:57 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Marcella
I'm better with detached limbs, sucking chest wounds, and splinters in 2 year olds feetsies.

What the medicos do after that? Not my problem.

/johnny

26 posted on 09/14/2012 5:23:10 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: SVTCobra03

I was a licensed EMT so that’s a skill I’ll use for bartering if the SHTF big time. I’ve got medical supplies as well as a full oxygen tank and mask. Have leg and arm splints, all that stuff.

When you take the EMT course, you have to work at an emergency room and on an ambulance for a period of time. Plus there is a state test to take. I got my license to be a first responder in my subdivision as it was in the country and it took a while for an ambulance to get there.

You can take a lesser course called an ECA (emergency care attendant) and that is less strenuous than the EMT course.


27 posted on 09/14/2012 5:24:07 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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wow! Great article! rare!
Article based on the assumption of the crumble of civilization and non availability of many modern drugs.


28 posted on 09/14/2012 5:24:25 PM PDT by RBStealth
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To: driftdiver

bookmark


29 posted on 09/14/2012 5:24:37 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 wasn't an election - it was a coup d'etat.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
I've got the proper bandage for sucking chest wounds.

I can't attach a limb but I can stop bleeding with Celox unless it's an artery - don't want to think about an artery spurting blood.

If you get pregnant, I can deliver the baby....

30 posted on 09/14/2012 5:30:54 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: Kartographer

31 posted on 09/14/2012 5:30:54 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Marcella; JRandomFreeper

Johnny are you pregnant? If so I’m throwing the shower!


32 posted on 09/14/2012 5:32:40 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Marcella
If you get pregnant

I find that highly unlikely. Highly unlikely.

/johnny

33 posted on 09/14/2012 5:36:14 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Marcella; JRandomFreeper; driftdiver; M Kehoe; All

Looks like a outfit call California Veterinary Supply has some good prices:

http://www.calvetsupply.com/category/s?keyword=antibiotic


34 posted on 09/14/2012 5:38:14 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
Yep, Kart, this old former TSgt that is male, celibate, and fixed like a cat after dealing with the pinking shears is preggers.

We're going to name it Kart.

I'm hoping for puppies.

/johnny

35 posted on 09/14/2012 5:39:27 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

That’s OK! I was still going to make you cater the thing!


36 posted on 09/14/2012 5:40:44 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer; JRandomFreeper

“Johnny are you pregnant? If so I’m throwing the shower!”

I like to pull his chain sometimes - it’s fun.


37 posted on 09/14/2012 5:40:53 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: JRandomFreeper
"I'm hoping for puppies."

If you do they are sure to be the ugliest meanist junkyard dogs this side of HELL! ;-)
38 posted on 09/14/2012 5:43:50 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

I’ve purchased from them and was happy with everything. At least as much as you can be without actually taking any of the product they delivered.

From what I’ve read you actually need a few different ones. Different drugs for different problems. Dosage is a big question. I’ve also purchased a physicians desk reference and a nurses drug manual to help with that.


39 posted on 09/14/2012 5:44:35 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lurker

Where can these be purchased?


40 posted on 09/14/2012 5:46:54 PM PDT by diamond6 (http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/p/catholic-prophecy.html)
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To: Marcella; Kartographer
It's considered bad form to poke fun at the cook. ;)

/johnny

41 posted on 09/14/2012 5:51:31 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: diamond6

See Post #34 for one place.


42 posted on 09/14/2012 6:02:00 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: JRandomFreeper; Kartographer

“It’s considered bad form to poke fun at the cook. ;)”

If Kart and I end up with you being the cook, I promise to be really good. I’m not sure Kart can be good.


43 posted on 09/14/2012 6:04:39 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: Kartographer

American Labs Silver Solutions (silver sol gel and liquid 10ppm and 22 ppm) Google Dr. Pedersen

A must for everyone. Shop for the best price!


44 posted on 09/14/2012 6:12:28 PM PDT by Maudeen (Proverbs 3:5-6)
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To: M Kehoe

http://www.entirelypets.com/thomaslabsfish.html?gclid=CPW8x_ep4q0CFYbe4AodzTXBkg


45 posted on 09/14/2012 6:19:23 PM PDT by suthener
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To: Marcella; Kartographer; All

You are what you eat. If you insist on eating processed chemicals, why would you be surprised when your body becomes inflamed, irritated or fills with pus and bacteria?

The American diet is unhealthy. People eat far too much processed grains, sugars and meats. Drive outside of town and locate a well kept farm. Stop in and ask them if they will raise a grass fed cow for you on a field using only natural fertilizers. Do a little research and you’ll find a local price that is fair.

Then don’t cook the meat in a microwave oven which kills all of the nutrients. Also don’t cook it well done which also damages the nutrients.

Stop drinking all soda pop and get back to drinking non fluoridated water.

It’s crazy but when you eat healthy foods your needs for medicines (chemical pills) disappears.

Stop using deodorants on your body. The thin skin under your arm absorbs the chemicals very readily. Stop burning scented candles in your home. Your lungs don’t need it even if your nose likes it.

Horse sense or common sense, what ever you want to call it will keep you healthy.


46 posted on 09/14/2012 6:49:09 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: djf

They come off the same assembly lines.


47 posted on 09/14/2012 7:14:12 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: B4Ranch
Hokay...

I eat mostly what I kill, and most of my carbs are processed right here in the house.

I don't own a microwave (exceptions for radio gear).

You have a fetish about food. It's carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, with trace elements. CHON. You are it, you eat it.

Even if you eat the perfect diet. You, and me, and everyone we know ARE GOING TO DIE!

I will know who died happy and who died with a stick up their ventral orifice, after your posting.

I'll be the guy hoo-rahing and otherwise being obnoxious.

/johnny

48 posted on 09/14/2012 7:19:34 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Marcella; Kartographer
Technically, it's safe to poke fun at the cook. He'll just outlive you from pure cussedness.

/johnny

49 posted on 09/14/2012 7:24:41 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: djf
If some farmer loses a herd of prize steer because of bunk antibiotics, the lawyers would be lined up around the block to take the case, potentially we’re talking millions of dollars, especially if it’s breed stock.

I'd like to see these breeding steers you speak of. :)

I had a bottle of the fish mox a few years ago and it cleared up an infected cut in a hurry. Good stuff.

50 posted on 09/14/2012 7:25:22 PM PDT by eartrumpet
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